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Harry Coventry Interview

Nick Gilbey 0:00

We had to start with a little bit of a spiel. British entertainment history project interview with Harry Coventry at his home in Buckinghamshire. The date is the 28th of August, 2025 the copyright of this interview is vested in the British entertainment history project archive. We will start then with the interview with Harry. Harry, can you tell us where and when you were born?

Harry Coventry 0:34

Yeah, I was born in East London, in the East London maternity hospital in Milan in Commercial Road in London in 1936 March 15, it was a fairly strange start, and my parents had just Got a house in Dagenham, and so we moved into one house and then another. And I grew up in Dagenham with until the start of the first second world war.

Nick Gilbey 1:13

Did your parents have any connection with the television film industry,

Harry Coventry 1:21

no, no. My, my father had a job. He worked in London with a Cable and Wireless company making telephone cable, basically. But I we had no, no hook up with with BBC, we listen to it. Listen to it on radio every, every day, basically. And when I was three and a half, the war started and and that part of London, they decided, in all the children had to be evacuated because it was going to be a target for bombing with Fords just around the corner and the docks just a little further on. So we all got shipped out in my little three and a half. I had my label, and I was put in a bus and sent with lots of other kids to a place in Suffolk, which was like a large mansion which had been taken over for the purpose.

Nick Gilbey 2:32

Sorry, that's it's quite a strong thing to happen for quite a sort of, I don't say dramatic, the emotional thing to happen to leave your home and go somewhere at the age of three and a half?

Harry Coventry 2:44

Yes, I mean, I it was amazing. You don't think that at that sort of age, you're going to remember very much. But I remember so much of it. I remember the boy at the end of the road where we used to go to pay the rent. He got on the bus, and I remember his name. It was Laurie warboys, and he he became instantly famous, as when we moved into this large room with about 20 beds around the corner, around the edges, and we all had this bed, and we all had a little pot underneath, and he was dared one evening to drink from that, and he did, and became an instant hero. But that, that's one of my memories at that age, so obviously it stood out I was we were brought back after about six months, or less than six months, I think about four months, because it was apparent that it was a forced war. No, no. Bombers came over. Nothing happened. And so we were all sent home. And I was there until beginning of 1940 when bombing did start, and the the Germans started bombing both Dagenham and the docks and Fords with with alacrity. So we were sent away again. This time I was sent in the other direction, out to Gloucestershire, to a similar large mansion in cam in Gloucestershire, with another lot of children. But I was, I remember being I was ill at the time. I got chicken, I got mumps, first of all, and I was very ill. And they sent for my mother, and where they took me out of that that home, and we with her. I We took bed and breakfast, I think, or in a local cottage with the Mrs. Jenkins. And I remember going with my mother to visit the local school, to look at the school kids at lunchtime when. Came out, and I was hoping that I would actually be able to go to school soon. So I was just about four at the time, or four and a half. Eventually, we went back to to London, and I did start school. I started in the infants for so what year would that be? And that would be about 4243 and once again, the we had some bombing. And I remember where there were, there were there were pamphlets, or up in in the school set showing pictures of things called butterfly bombs, brightly coloured bombs that were designed, evidently, to make children pick them up. But no one ever actually saw any but this, the pictures of these bombs was very vivid in in every kid's mind that you were going to to come across these things. But all we came across every morning were we'd all rush out to pick up the the fins of incendiary bombs, or any other bits of met the of metal that we could find for our collection. We all had a collection under her beds of the fins of ancient century bombs or high explosives, or any bits with that had fallen off of planes or and so

Nick Gilbey 6:31

so the the was there any theatre amongst

Harry Coventry 6:35

there was a little, I mean, I remember seeing The the Battle of Britain, starting the Hornchurch airfield was very close to our house. And for a kid of about four, four and a half five, it was, it was five o'clock. It was exciting to you saw a bright, sunny days in 1940 and you could see here the very distant buzzing of of aeroplanes, and you could see the vapour trail is making patterns in the sky. Very occasionally you see, you'd hear a Rat Attack of of gunfire. But to a child, it was very pretty and nice to look at. So we'd all go out and have a look. It was, it was we didn't realise that people were killing each other up there at the time. It was, it was just nice patterns in the sky. Eventually, I got sent away again to visit my aunt who'd who'd moved from from bow in London, and taken my grandma out to share a cottage in Taunton in Somerset and and I went with her and her, the lady next door and her daughter, and we all moved into this one down one up in Taunton, and I went to school there. I'd already been to school for a year or so in Dagenham, and strangely enough, I we were myself and another boy were We were slightly ahead of the children in the school in Taunton. So in some of the lessons, I could just sit and read a book rather than than join in. But it was a happy time. I liked the kids there. I had nice memories of Taunton. But I kept, I went back to London again, the then the the buzz bombs started, the flying bombs. And I we were in in in the line of of these bombs, mostly coming into London. And it was quite regular for us to see them and hear them coming. And I remember seeing them at one point so close that you could actually see the rivets on on the actual side of the the flying bombs and the insignia, the Iron Cross. My father grabbed me and threw me into the shelter at the time, because this thing had come over very low and and unheralded by by alarms at all the sirens going off and so and they, they would. They had a nasty habit of suddenly looping up and coming backwards and exploding. But this one. I luckily, just kept going. But we saw them. We spent many hours in in the shelter at night, until my father got a bit sick of this. Mother and they, they made beds in the in the in the lounge, underneath a mantelpiece to for some sort of safety. My father, at the time, every night, was going off to the local park because he was in the in the Home Guard, and he was firing rocket guns at all these incoming German planes. And so he was working during the day on a reserved occupation, making cable anti mine cable for in with a standard telephone company in in London, in Woolwich. But at night, he would spend a whole of the night glazing away at aeroplanes. So I don't know when he ever got to sleep, but it was an exciting time. But then again, I kept being sent away, back again to my aunt in Taunton, until I then sent back and they started, not the the the rocket, not the the doodle bugs, but rocket, the v2 rockets, the V twos started coming over, and those were very interesting occasionally. I remember one Sunday morning, we were going for a paper, and we were looking down an avenue in Dagenham, and there was, you could see these, this little thin silver streak going up in the far distance, looking up this avenue. It was going up in Holland, but you could with the sun glinting on it for about the first 10 or 15 degrees of elevation, you could actually see reflection of this, this v2 going up, and then maybe a few couple of minutes later, you would hear a bang, and there was an explosion somewhere. I remember going past seeing an explosion, or hearing an explosion just along the Avenue from us, and going with my father along there quickly, and seeing the front of this house blown off and two girls sitting up in bed with their curlers in, and the bed was was perched on the edge of this non existent front and it was funny and and, but they were absolutely standing there clutching their bed clothes and terrified where the curlers in their hair it was, it was memories that that live with you for The rest of your life. Obviously, this show sharply placed, but we, I, we got over that part. The v2 stopped. I'd started school at four and a five. I was just coming up to nine, when the when this when the war ended. Do you remember that time? I do. I remember that time very well. The celebrations for VE Day and VJ Day, the the parties in the road, we'd all get the all the people would get the tables out, and all the kids would sit around and well, there wasn't a great deal to eat, but there were jam sandwiches and there was jelly, and there was some sort of cream, air sacs cream, I think of if it was false cream of some description. There wasn't much fruit around. But what there was on that table at the time, and there were some buns made, and there was tea, and there were fruit, there was some drinks, and we all had a fun and they sang songs afterwards, and started bonfires. And it was a celebration that marked the end of something and progression towards a, you know, another part of life, basically,

Nick Gilbey 14:32

well, yes, because, I mean, the it was pretty tough. I mean, food wise, you mentioned, you know, six years of fairly scarce food ration.

Harry Coventry 14:43

Absolutely there weren't many fat people around. Put it that way, the rations were very tiny. And my father, like every other person, grew as much as they could in their garden. Their gardens were all of. Full of tomatoes and potatoes and anything that they could could get. We used to queue up. I remember for most of the thing my my parents would my mum was queue up regularly for, sometimes for vegetables, but mostly for for either fish or or meat, groceries, cheese, that sort of thing. You've got a tiny amount, but, you know, people made the best of it and and I think we were probably the healthiest we've ever been as a as a nation, because we didn't eat lots of fat. We didn't, we didn't. We exercised a lot, and I we got over it. I think it was a strange but I think from for a child of that age, it wasn't an unpleasant I don't remember ever feeling frightened in the bomb. When the bombs went off, if there was a blast from a doodle bug or a rocket, it was, if it wasn't you getting all the house next door, you sort of took it, as a matter of fact, by then, you become used to it. And

Nick Gilbey 16:21

do you think that your parents protected you of this in a way, because they, I'm sure they did. They must have feared for

Harry Coventry 16:28

you as well. Yeah, well, when my, when I got sent away, secondly, to Gloucestershire to come, it was, it was my mother went, came once I was very unhappy in the in the place we were staying, where the children were all billeted in this home. She came to stay with me for a while. And it was, it was something that you looked for all the time was some sort of reassurance. And going back to London was one of those things you did. You went back. You then went away again. You went back again. And schooling was interrupted. One minute you were in in a school in Dagenham. Next minute you're in a school in Taunton in Somerset, then you were hope looking at schools in, looking at the children in a school in in in Gloucestershire. It was, it was upsetting in some ways. But to a child of under five, those sort of things were not not a problem. If there was you were getting this sort of reassurance from your parents when the bombing started in London again, it was exciting. We all used to rush out and collect fins from incendiary bombs, from bits of of high explosive when the casings all split, we all had their collection under the bed and and with the exception of one little boy up the road who actually had a live bomb under his Bob bed until someone discovered it. It was quite, quite exciting, and but you were sent to I was sent away to visit my aunt in in this house in Taunton. Ended a couple of times, and it broke it up and coming back to school in in London, in Dagenham, was was that was the frightening bit, not not that the bombing was on, or that there were air raids at night, that was sort of matter of fact, you didn't really bother that. But coming back to a strange school with strange kids, I was bullied because I was a newcomer, strange and so that was, that was, that was the worst thing, not the German bombing. That was, I would see there were, we were right on the the estuary of the Thames. So bombers coming into London would fly very low passed out. I remember my mother was ill in bed, once with pleurisy, and I heard this, this, this, the sound of these engines. And I opened the curtain, looked out of the window, and there was a German bomber. In fact, several German bombers passing by literally just over roof height, because they were then escaping barrage balloons and the sort of things that were up to try and catch them. And. You could see the insignia on on the side of the planes. You could actually almost wave at the other pilots. And my mother screamed. She was in bed ill at the time, but she got me away from the window. But that I, you know, I will live with that picture of that German pilot passing, and there's me waving to him and and it was one of those things, those little memories that as a child you saw and stored. It was not necessarily frightening. It might be frightening to my parents, but to me, it was, it was exciting. Did you listen to the radio? Yeah, we all listen to the radio. It was the only we listened to it. In the afternoon, I listened to mother's hour and and and listened to children's hour to regularly every day was children's hour if I was at home, and then the BBC really became the back room. The radio became what we it was a major form of entertainment. You didn't really go to the cinema because, you know that it was not necessarily the best thing to get stuck in a cinema in an air raid.

Nick Gilbey 21:19

What about at that age? You wouldn't have listened to the news on the movies.

Harry Coventry 21:25

No, I we didn't. I remember the towards the end of the war, we did go to the cinema once, once, the war was nearly over, and the air raids had stopped, and the doodly bogs and and the V twos had stopped, the the the pictures. Then I remember going to see a Danny Kaye film. And that was Love, fun entertainment, but the newsreels started then showing the the, my mother kept me sating down. She didn't think there was going to be any problem. The Show, the pictures going into Auschwitz and places like that, and the piles of dead bodies you

Nick Gilbey 22:18

saw that when you were when I was, I was 889,

Harry Coventry 22:22

yeah, and see these piles of of corpses, all literally skeletons, just piled on top of each other, And these people with staring eyes and wearing rags, looking at the camera. I went it was, it was something that will live with you for the rest of your life. You will never, ever lose that

Nick Gilbey 22:53

image, as it was a shock to you, because, of course, the war had been slightly sanitised,

Harry Coventry 23:00

completely sanitised. I was, I was either away, or even if I was home, and there were bombings, it was, it was exciting rather than frightening to a child. And the thought of of it ending all I remember VE Day and VJ Day and the the celebrations and the street parties and the jellies. And it was, it was fun, but it was, it was the end of one thing and the start of another. You know, it was start of of the rest of your life, basically,

Nick Gilbey 23:44

yes, so were you aware of television? I mean, it did start in for two years before the war, very limited. Yeah, I

Harry Coventry 23:53

wasn't aware of television at all, really, until secondary school, because I remember we didn't have a television very few people did at the time. I remember I started grammar I luckily I passed my 11 plus and went to a grammar school in Alfred, which was about an hour's bus ride away, which was highly convenient because we had a grammar school at the end of my road, David County High School. But my parents wanted me to go to a posh school, and they didn't really think that was so I did my hours bus ride there, an hour back. I don't think I really demonstrated a need to learn. It was I thought the job was done once you were there, so I don't think I did my best in What school did you go to? I went to there in 1947 just after the war. Yeah,

Nick Gilbey 25:01

so when was the first time you remember watching a television? I

Harry Coventry 25:07

remember watching the first time I remember watching I'd seen some demonstrations in in the windows of the shops selling televisions and radios. But I remember going to one of my friends in my school, lived not far from the school, and he was going to watch the Cup final, and he invited me to go with into his house with his family to watch the Cup final, because they had a television, and I remember seeing the Cup final in I think it was 1950 I'm not sure, but it was, it was quite a fantastic thing For me. I remember seeing Stanley Matthews and Blackpool against someone or other. And it was, it was just something that will again. It's the first time you've ever seen a television set. It's an exciting football match. It lives with you forever. I never, ever thought at that time that that that would be my future in some way or no other?

Nick Gilbey 26:27

What about the because the big event for television was the coronation. Do you remember that at all?

Harry Coventry 26:34

Yeah, I remember the coronation because, because at that time, I was in the boy scouts, and I was asked to sell programmes in London in in the mall. And so the group of us went up to the mall. It was pouring with rain, and every had been pouring all night. The Mao was lined with sodden people. There was food that they'd been trying to consume. There were newspapers that everyone was it was 10 deep, at least on either side of the mall, and people were absolutely saturated, but they weren't going to move. And we went there in the morning to sell these piles of programmes of the of the coronation. And as a boy scout, we went and and I remember it was still raining, passing among them, selling these programmes that they and it was watching, then the progression starting, procession starting, and all the carriages with the people passing by. It was exciting,

Nick Gilbey 28:04

but you weren't aware of the television cover.

Harry Coventry 28:08

I was not aware of any television coverage at the time. No, the first time I remember watching television was was when we got a television set eventually, which was not until I was actually about 12 or 14 apart in someone else's house. Again, I remember seeing Children's Hour on on television. Someone had a film. But in those days, televisions were not the norm in Dagenham, it's quite a poor area and and not many people had televisions the

Nick Gilbey 29:02

so after you, after your grammar school, what did you decide to do?

Harry Coventry 29:09

Yeah, I really didn't know what to do. I got a job. I wanted to get a job. I wanted to, first of all, to get a job in in with an air company I tried to join, I think, Bea or at the time, and I remember going for an interview and taking my father along, and every time we got a list of questions to answer, and we would answer every question on the thing. And so when I came to to the actual interview, they were of the opinion that I didn't really know what I wanted to do in the. A list of things which they'd offered me to do in British Airways or British European airways. So I didn't get that job. I was then sort of rather panicking what I was going to do. I saw a job in in London with Matthew Hall, which was a company manufacture selling pipe work and to installation of of refineries and that sort of thing. And I got a job in the buying department of that company in Baker Street. In fact, it was in Dorset square, just next to marybone Station. It was eventually I realised an absolutely dead end job. I was in the buying department. I used to go out for tea twice a day, morning and afternoon, for for the for the we take it in turns the boys in the department to go out and get that from the local cafes. For everyone in the department, I couldn't see, really see a future there, and with the National Service looming, I was, I was a bit desperate to to get a job somewhere, doing something else. I applied.

Nick Gilbey 31:31

What? Sorry. Why were there jobs, which meant that you didn't have to do national service or

Harry Coventry 31:37

No, I was thinking about joining the Air Force to start with. So I joined. I went for an air crew recruitment to Horn church, in which was only just up the road from where we lived. And I did quite well all the aptitude tests, I was virtually the only person that that actually completed the tests with the group of people we were in. But when it came to the interviews, I was too easily dissuaded by the people playing devil's advocate, advocate on in the people facing me, so I was rejected in the end, or I wasn't rejected. I was rejected for pilot on and but I was offered the position of navigator or air signaler, and I really was not very interested in that. I didn't that wasn't what I wanted. It didn't fill me with joy. So I, I decided not to do that.

Nick Gilbey 32:51

Did you again? The idea of working in television hadn't,

Harry Coventry 32:56

no television. Television hadn't occurred to me at all, but I eventually joined the Air Force as a radar fit her radar operator, air radar I was I went along to to some aptitude tests, and was and was, thought that was fine, so I joined for four years as an air radar operator. What year would that be? That would be 1954 to 58 and I did four years as a regular in the Air Force. You couldn't sign up as a regular in that in that area. I couldn't get that in national service, but I could get it as a regular. So I decided to to join up as I I'd become so, so four years was a minimum that you could it was yes in that particular area. So I signed on for four years. Then I became a radar fitter. I was looking after ed the radar in in night fighters. And I was, I was in stations in the country working at night. I was stationed in, first of all, in Odium in Hampshire, and then in Rutland, in in North lotham in Rutland. And I enjoyed that. I thought that was, that was it was it was fulfilling. It wasn't. Uh, totally what I want to do. But when I, when I was got to the end of my my service, what was I going to sign on, or was I going to try and do something else? Initially, I took a job. I signed on with the New Zealand Air Force for three years, which guaranteed me three years in New Zealand and three years in Britain, back in Britain as as as in the same air radar field. But that all fell through when the when the when the New Zealand budget came out and they decided to cancel overseas recruitment, so I was left not knowing quite what to do, and then I'd already written at one point to the BBC asking for an interview, and got no reply. So

Nick Gilbey 36:07

ask you, what prompted you at that point to think about, well,

Harry Coventry 36:13

I saw the into, I saw the article again, the advertisement, and I thought, Well, I would reply again. Having had no reply, I'd do it again, because I was getting a bit desperate by then,

Nick Gilbey 36:27

the first time you applied, was that an answer to an advert. It was

Harry Coventry 36:31

in the newspaper. And by this time, I'd taken a job, a temporary job, as a cinema manager, or assistant cinema Manager, which was in the area I was, was a bit of a nightmare. There was some it was the time of Teddy boys, and people were my, remember my I was a cinema manager or assistant in Heathway in Dagenham, and someone threw my head of staff through a plate glass window. And it was not exactly it was the time of of of the Rock Around the Clock and and it was, it was not a happy time. So I was desperate to get out of there. I told the Rank Organisation that that was enough. I retired. I resigned. I took a temporary job in in in Worcestershire, picking apples and and I reply, I asked I'd written to the BBC, replying to another advertisement for television, and this time, my parents rang back and said, you know, you've got an appointment. So I, my aunt told me this. I rushed back to London and I went to this appointment. Do you remember where that was? Yes, it was in Broadcasting House, and it was, it was, was very grand. And I remember it was the first time I'd ever been in front of a board, and there were these four or five people sitting there asking me questions. And they started asking me questions about my radar and my what I'd been working on and the and it was obviously intricate enough for them to think that, although I didn't necessarily have the basic they were asking for higher level requirements, educational requirements, I didn't had had some O levels, but not not the advanced levels. They they thought that that was adequate. They asked me to some questions about a basic setup of a radio which I answered, and then they said, Well, you know, we can offer you a job in outside broadcasts or in in in studios. What would you prefer? And I said, Well, I've been outside for the last four years. I prefer to take a job in outside broadcasts. And they said, well, the only job in outside broadcast for in operations is as an assistant cameraman or trainee cameraman, which I was delighted. The thought appealed to me.

Nick Gilbey 39:32

Do you think your RAF background helped?

Harry Coventry 39:35

It was the only thing that got me a job. Basically, I had sufficient technical knowledge in in the fact that I could tell him about double reentrant lines and and, and magnetrons and klystrons and and all the things that I dealt with in radar. I had enough technical knowledge, technical electrical electrical knowledge to i. To get me through, into into that area I could have got through, I think, as as in, in engineering as well, but I preferred operations, the idea of being actually operating things, rather than than being servicing equipment.

Nick Gilbey 40:23

Of course, a lot of producers and people on the production side had, had been in the RAF during the war and

Harry Coventry 40:31

things. Yes, I met quite a few afterwards. Happily, I've had some really good experiences with them.

Nick Gilbey 40:41

So you had memories to share in a way. Yes,

Harry Coventry 40:44

I the fact that I joined the BBC, and eventually I was as a senior cameraman. I joined on cameras. I took two years to

Nick Gilbey 41:02

to well, perhaps we go back. Sorry, I've diverted a little bit there. So, so your first day working for the BBC?

Harry Coventry 41:11

Yeah, I joined in on the 15th of of September 1958 and I remember walking in to the palace of arts in Wembley, which was a leftover from the 1924 exhibition all these various large hangar type places which had been exhibition halls. This was the palace of arts, and it was very grand place. It was half empty. There were only there were three scanners or vehicles in in the in that area at the time, plus one small one, a roving eye. And there was unit one, two and three. And I was allocated after a initial interview to join unit three, and the senior cameraman was probably one of the best cameramen in the BBC at the time, and and I was, I was very lucky and happy to be in that unit. And I had two years to establish myself as I was a trainee, and it was amazing. I still was the first job. The first week I was on in that with that unit were amazing, because I joined on the Monday in the palace of arts on the Wednesday, the unit was sent out into London to a science establishment. I don't know quite where it was, but we were doing a science programme, and they asked me to do a camera. We had three cameras, and I was doing a camera, and all what it was they were demonstrating an atom bomb explosion. But to do this in picture, they were dropping a precipitate of sort of, some chalky substance into a tank of water, and as they dropped it in, it would blossom out. And they reversed the scans on the camera, and so in my viewfinder it was going up and coming out, which was fine, but your initial reaction when you have a camera is to follow what is in your viewfinder with the camera. In this case, I had to go against my initial reaction, my rational reactions would have been to go pan up to follow the cloud, but I had to pan down to follow the cloud going up in my viewfinder. Now I would have found in the whole of my camera history. I would have found that difficult to do, but to do it on the first day that you actually have, you've been in the BBC for three days, and it was the first programme you'd been on. I found it very, very hard to do, but I'd have forced myself to pan up with it instead of panning down, and it worked perfectly well. And and I was relieved that that programme, which was all live at that time, it was not, not a question of recording. So it had gone well. And on the Saturday we were again, we were doing an outside broadcast in Borden in Hampshire, and it was a army rough riding thing. It was a thing that the army did basically just for television. It was a mocked up thing of various various vehicles charging around an area in born with trees and every. Anything else, and I found myself doing a camera with a zoom. I'd never had a zoom prejudice zoom before. We were set up. The Cine camera was miles away. He just showed me the camera, showed me the zoom, and I was left to it. And I was working with a producer, and and the producer was telling me what what was coming. And I luckily, I found operating the Zoom almost seemed natural in some way, to to wind a handle in and to focus at the same time was fairly natural. And it was a bright day, and I had plenty of depth of field and and, and all I could was doing was adjusting zoom and and and panning them as they went through this part of the course, which was fine until we got to the very end. And what I hadn't really seen was there was a scoreboard in my area, and I had been concentrating on the vehicles themselves, but then I was told, go around onto the scoreboard. I panned around onto the scoreboard, and the producer said, zoom in. And as I zoomed in, the whole lot disappeared in focus, and what I hadn't realised was that the depth of field that I'd been relying on everything else wasn't going to work on the scoreboard. I hadn't had chance to check my focus at that point, and it took me what seemed like an age to rack and get it back into focus. It went in fairly quickly, I think, and but it was, it was my first lesson in depth of field. I'd never even heard of the the thought before. But it was, it was a lesson, and the the the producer was pleased, and obviously I got good vibrations back from from the Cine cameraman as well. And

Nick Gilbey 47:09

of course, he couldn't see what you've been doing. But no juicer could. No Can I just couple of things. Then, Had you taken any still photographs before? No. So this was your first experience of working with a camera

Harry Coventry 47:24

I'd never it was my first time of actually on in the first Wednesday, it was my first time to actually operate a camera going up and down or unfocusing, and on The Saturday, it was my first time operating a zoom, and I'd had no chance. No one had asked me to check focus on on the on the scoreboard. I had no idea of depth of field. It was a something i I realised I needed to focus when I'd been going around, but my depth of field had covered me for most of the things in the plane that I'd been working in. But going into a different plane with a different point in the depth of field, it, it was very strange. I it was a sharp lesson, something I was always aware of after that.

Nick Gilbey 48:25

I mean, I don't know the exact day, but say you joined 10 years later, you probably have had six months training at Wood Norton.

Harry Coventry 48:32

Oh yeah. And I'd have, I'd have had chance to, even if I'd had a week at Wembley, I'd have had chance to work, to practice with the cameras as they as they cleaned them and checked them in the scanner Hall. But I was straight into a unit that was straight out onto programmes. But I did all right. I was, you know, there was no problem about it was one shot went soft and then was focused. It horrified me, but it, I think it, it was merely a lesson that very quickly learned on on my first week.

Nick Gilbey 49:14

So what is it? Do you think I mean, OB is about being about for a decade or something, but you were still, I don't know how to describe it, that it was an infant. He was still expanding. And

Harry Coventry 49:33

OBS had gone through. They'd gone through the start of ITV. ITV had started maybe a couple of years earlier, and had taken a lot of the staff out of out of outside broadcasts from in BBC, into ITV, a lot of the people had gone. So I was joining at a time when there was I wouldn't have gone. Position in outside broadcast a couple of years earlier, but I was a time when, when things were changing, there were there was room for expansion. For a couple of years, there was no expansion but, but after that, we started getting new scanners,

Nick Gilbey 50:23

just on the on the question of scanners, the border would have just been three cameras again. Oh, three, three cameras. Yes, the zoom lenses were still

Harry Coventry 50:37

not, still rare, the Taylor Hobson zoom lens. I'd never seen one before. And there it was, stuck on the front of this camera on a, on a, on a, and when they rigged it, the Cine camera on and the other cameraman rigged this thing. And I was there watching. I didn't know that I would be operating it for a start, but there it was, and I was operating it.

Nick Gilbey 51:04

Why do you think they chose you to

Harry Coventry 51:07

operate? I not sure. I think there may have been four cameras on that particular show. There were, there were four cameras on lots of programmes,

Nick Gilbey 51:24

but I have seen the sort of producers, I don't say demands, but they would ask for what an extra cam,

Harry Coventry 51:35

yeah, and zoom lenses and yeah. So it was some, it was a time when, when you you learned on the job, basically, it was all right going to school. But on this time, in outside broadcasts, you were thrown in. You were a trainee cameraman, and you were there. You had two years probation, and at the end of those two years you could either, if you were no good, you were out, basically. So there was a certain, in my sense, a certain desperation to prove myself to be good, to keep in there, because I loved the BBC. The whole idea of working for the BBC was something magical, as far as I was concerned, and to get to be trusting on in my first week do two live programmes was amazing. I then became used to doing the third or fourth camera fairly regularly, and eventually I was, I was made a permanent member

Nick Gilbey 52:58

of that crew, of that crew, yes, did you work with others?

Harry Coventry 53:02

No, I, I was later on, I was I did secondments. I did a couple of days in Birmingham in a studio. I was asked to fill in for people there. So I did a I worked on a play in studio in Birmingham with similar cameras. And I've I did not one other attachment, but basically, we did all every type of programme we were in in Downing Street one week we were, we were doing something in a church than the next. I remember doing a live programme in from Canterbury Cathedral with a producer called George Fowler. And we, we were all cameras were live. We did murder in Cathedral, and it was, it was quite a monster programme, all live and beautifully done by this with this producer, and I was proud to be a part of that. Most programmes were live at the time recording. We did do some recordings, but most recordings were onto telecine, and they were restricted to things like theatre excerpts from the Whitehall theatre and things like that.

Nick Gilbey 54:37

So what would happen? Then it'd be recorded back at

Harry Coventry 54:40

they recorded the programme in tele Cine, and it was, and if they tele city broke down, we had to stop the recording and start again in a similar place. So it was, it was not a terribly telecine. Was not a happy. Place in when the when it became more usual to record on on video, then it became a more normal thing. And even then, you would have times occasionally when you would have a forced stop, if you were recording a programme that could be stopped, but most times, you had to get on with it. If I remember I was doing when I I was very lucky in that six, less than six years after I joined the BBC, I became a senior cameraman. It was, it was it was I went forward.

Nick Gilbey 55:50

Can we say, What the So, what year are we talking about?

Harry Coventry 55:57

In 1964 what I became a senior cameraman.

Nick Gilbey 56:03

And again, the department was expanding. Then it

Harry Coventry 56:06

was expanding. It was just before the the advent of all these scanners, MCR 21 and these various other scanners came, and suddenly we had an expansion in the scanner Hall from the three scanners, plus the roving eye, which had been the norm for ages. And then suddenly, in 1964 these other vehicles started to arrive, and I was told that I would have one of these as a senior cameraman. I was still working as a cameraman with another unit. I had another senior cameraman, which was rather funny, because I was a senior cameraman. He was a senior cameraman. I was working for him, and I was the subject of a lot of jokes. Jokes,

Nick Gilbey 57:05

your own unit,

Harry Coventry 57:06

until I got my unit and this

Nick Gilbey 57:10

so, so you worked your way up because you, you were taken on just as an operator. How did I was

Harry Coventry 57:16

taken as an operator, a trainee cameraman. Then I was, after two years, I was made a substantial cameraman, cameraman class three or two. Then I became, I got promoted. I went to, I went to Evesham on a on a basic course, and then I went on a senior to cops course to become, to give me qualifications become a senior cameraman, which was so I did both these courses in Evesham. I did that course. And then in just under six years, I went for a board and got the job as a senior cameraman before,

Nick Gilbey 58:05

before 64 then, or that was around 64 but you didn't have your own but you would have

Harry Coventry 58:12

no what I was. I was the first cameraman on MCR 21 it was a new MCR, and I was the first Cine camera on that unit, I had to wait for several weeks because it was being tested and and various modifications were being done before it was being staffed. And then when it was being staffed, I was taken into the office, and I was asked whether who I would like on Mike, on my crew. I was given some alternatives. I chose Selwyn Cox, who was an established OB cameraman at the time I worked with Andy Tullock in a in a in Evesham who was at the time in studios, working with a camera crew. And I asked for Andy to get a transfer if he wished it. And I was lucky enough, I actually had the choice of the people to be on my crew, because it was a new unit, and we were entirely a new crew, starting as one.

Nick Gilbey 59:27

So there was change of equipment, of course, wasn't there because there were currently mark three cameras in the previous units, yes, and you were then having a PI unit. Yes, what changes did you see in that as far as well?

Harry Coventry 59:45

I mean, the main change was that the with the use of a zoom, or with the use of a of an ordinary lens camera. Camera, your, your, your, your controls were differently you, you had, you had, you had your focus and your zoom controls on on different sides. For a start, you got used to on a on a lens, camera to focusing on the right hand side and changing your lens with with the on a zoom, you had to to zoom on the right hand side of focus with the left. And so when, when the the change of cameras came in, you had a zoom on your left hand side and a focus on your right, on the on the controls it, which was to someone who'd got used to the things before, it was alien. But here's something you've got used to. And was basically the they were, they were basically the same cameras. They had the same tubes in they were not some magnificent new tube. The the PI cameras were still a image. Author, con three and a half inch, or whatever it was.

Nick Gilbey 1:01:36

View, fighters were they the same. View finders

Harry Coventry 1:01:39

were better, but they were basically the same, not very similar. Slightly. They were better definition, but they were still black and white view finders and and it was a black and white camera. Basically it wouldn't. It was no, no real difference, apart from the construction of the thing and the fact that you were using zooms more regularly,

Nick Gilbey 1:02:08

and they were for standard was for camera. Oh, yes, yes. So, so you had four camera. You had three people who were permanent, permanently assigned.

Harry Coventry 1:02:24

I had, I had four people as camera, cameraman, and I had a trainee after a while as well, someone who came on as a trainee, Peter Cook. Peter Cook was one of them. Yes, I had another guy before Peter, who was probably better suited to another department, who eventually went into sound, became a very good sound mixer. Peter Cook came and we had, he eventually became cameraman, a regular cameraman, on outside broadcast.

Nick Gilbey 1:03:08

So did you use four cameras all the time? I think we

Harry Coventry 1:03:14

could. We pretty much used cameras, four cameras on most programmes. There were very few that we were restricted to three, because if you had four cameras, a producer would use four cameras. He they were, they would find a way to use them. If you had nine cameras, they'd find a way to use nine cameras. You know, 36 Yes, but it was, it was, it was? It was a time when, when you because we were a new unit and we were a new crew, you were finding each other's strengths, and we were doing totally new programmes as well. We were, we were, we were, we did some wonderful programmes.

Nick Gilbey 1:04:03

What sort of I mean, obviously sport is one of them.

Harry Coventry 1:04:06

Yes, sport. Sport was always the the backbone of outside broadcasts. But we had to do everything we did programmes from number 10 Downing Street. We did programmes from opera houses. I remember I did programmes from glynbourne with using the several programmes twice. We did the the the operas from glynbourne Live and it was, it was wonderful to actually be part of those, those programmes. They were very, very taxing, but they were great. The the the live programmes were gradually superseded. By by recorded ones eventually, but at that time, okay, most programmes were live. We even we started doing programmes abroad. We did the first recorded programme aboard recording van were starting to be used in outside broadcasts, and some programmes were being recorded, but we did programmes on a boat to Stockholm to Gothenburg, and then we did a programme in Volvos in Gothenburg. So we did two separate wheel based programmes as as programmes abroad for the basically, I think, for the first time that programmes had ever been done in their entirety abroad. There had been programmes from abroad transmitted across the channel by radio links and that sort of thing, but to actually take recording machines abroad and do a programme that was the first

Nick Gilbey 1:06:09

that we did, that was quite a sort of a ferry all the way to Gothenburg.

Harry Coventry 1:06:15

Yes, we did a programme on the ferry at night, overnight, recording all overnight, from the time we got on the ferry all the way through until the next morning arriving in Gothenburg. And then what that's recording, or live recording. So you had the MCR 21 you had a MCR 21 we had a VT van with a recording machine or two, I think VT machines in it, and recording directly into the recording in in the in the bowels of the of the ship as we went. So,

Nick Gilbey 1:06:57

of course, is the all the other vans that yeah,

Harry Coventry 1:07:01

the tender and everything else. And so we went straight from there into the Volvo factory, set up there, and then went to sleep, basically, and did the Volvo programme The following day, again, a recorded programme on the line at Volvo.

Nick Gilbey 1:07:29

Can you remember the year? I mean, I can, can look it up,

Harry Coventry 1:07:32

but I think that was probably 65 or 66 right? 65

Nick Gilbey 1:07:44

I think possibly so. This was another example of the OB department pushing out the limits of what could be done.

Harry Coventry 1:07:53

Yes, absolutely it was. It was we did. We were doing things then, like, initially, Winston Churchill's funeral, was a very, very large OB. When my unit was in in St Paul's Cathedral, we had, well, there was another unit in St Paul's Cathedral as well doing the actual service. My unit was basically there was one on the steps during the entrance into St Paul's. There was another in the first colonnade, and there was another camera up right at the very top of the tower in the dome in simples, those, the one in the dome actually had to be built through the actual dome itself and and a rostrum was built onto the actual dome. And you had to get the camera across a gap of about three feet, onto the rostrum and rig it with the with the with uh, the Moy mounting as well on this Ross small rostrum actually built up through the dome of St Paul's Cathedral. It was a very looking the shot was incredible looking down Fleet Street and the dome disappearing away and looking down Fleet Street in the towers of some pause in front. And Andy Tullock did that camera, and he did it beautifully.

Nick Gilbey 1:09:28

You say a Moy ahead? Was it?

Harry Coventry 1:09:31

Yeah, they put a Moy on because they couldn't trust a tripod. Let's go onto that route, onto that mounting, on, on that mounting on that rostrum that far above St Paul. So they wanted something absolutely permanent, so they got a Moy base. Explain what a Moy? A Moy being a square lump of brass weighing probably a couple of 100 a. 100 weight and a half or so, which they then had to put across this gap into onto the rostrum, which is only about five foot wide by about three foot and rig the the legs onto the MOI, and then the head, and then the camera. Everything had to be passed across this gap making sure nothing was dropped.

Nick Gilbey 1:10:29

And it was a geared head. Was it? It was a sorry moi. My knowledge of moi is that they actually had

Harry Coventry 1:10:38

a no no. This was a solid base, right, with two legs and a head, the camera head mounting and and then the camera

Nick Gilbey 1:10:50

was it specially built for that, or it's just it was a standard thing that they did that

Harry Coventry 1:10:54

was a standard more rig. That was a standard thing you would have things like race tracks or places to where they wanted a stable mounting, right? It was the heaviest. It was basically to counterbalance any any weight which the camera, if you will, doing violent pans the it was more stable than a tripod if you're doing things like motor racing or anything where you had to do fairly violent moves with a head, the Moy and a pair of legs and then straight into the the head of the camera.

Nick Gilbey 1:11:40

So camera one was, you on the steps?

Harry Coventry 1:11:45

Yes, I was on on, not on the steps opposite the set. I was on the the memorial in just in front of some Paul's, looking at the arrival and the steps of St Paul's. So you get a shot of them going up and going up the steps and and coming down. But basically the coffin coffins entrance and entry up this into the into some pause. And my next camera was upon the in the whispering gallery, looking down into the bowels of Saint Paul's and then the third camera, we only had three there, was right built up through the dome, looking down Fleet Street. That was incredible a It was incredible rig, but the programme had that sort of gravity. You knew you were part of something that was was unique and going to be

Nick Gilbey 1:12:50

seen forever, I suppose. Sorry, I going to say, I mean, it is sometimes since the war. But of course, Winston Churchill was made his significant contribution to the war, in a way, I suppose it was people's memory that as well

Harry Coventry 1:13:09

he I had grown up with Winston Churchill, with him on the radio. My father talking about him the war, ending the whole of the war experience for me was growing up with the radio and Winston Churchill, so to do that was was personal. It was something that I remember, will remember from the rest of my life. It was something that I think will live in the memory of most people that worked on it, and with the sort of the the other big OBS, the the royal weddings and the and the the the correlation momentous things that that you got, you became part of, you know, if you, if you went into Downing Street and you met the Prime Minister and you had a drink with them afterwards, you know, with Margaret Thatcher, or with with uh Howard Wilson in his house in Buckinghamshire, or with Ted Heath in the Admiralty house because they were doing up number 10, you would meet Prime Minister. You would have a whiskey with the Prime Minister. It was, it was a privileged life, as far as I was concerned. It was something every day was something utterly special. It was never the same two days running. Would even if you went to the same place, you never met the same people exactly in the same way. They never the same thing never happened in exactly the same way it was. It was my life in the BBC was totally one of. Change and joy I never, ever had a Monday morning feeling working in the BBC.

Nick Gilbey 1:15:08

Do you think this reinforces that you made the right choice not going into studios?

Harry Coventry 1:15:13

I look in retrospect, I think it would have been my greatest mistake, because a I got out and in the sort of freedom, the fresh air, the we did lots of programmes outside. We had the variety of programmes we were doing things in Downing Street, in the Albert Hall, in in all sorts of places, in in motorating circuits, in in in golf. On golf courses, we had the range of we met the range of people we met through our job, either as a cameraman or later on as a stage manager. And I did some directing as well. This, the range of people you met, was incredible. You, your experience of of what was going on in the country was unique. You, You were you were having experiences that people would give their right arm for, you know, you were going to the Cup final, and you were sitting on the World Cup final as myself on the close up camera at Wembley, doing the World Cup final in 1966 you know, it was for me that Whole fortnight, or whatever it was, or three weeks, we did every England match at Wembley. Now, I didn't really think that this was a big deal, you know? I thought it was going to be just another succession of football matches. No one had any great hope that England were going to win the World Cup, because there was Brazil, there was there were there was Portugal with Eusebio, there was Brazil, there was all these other countries, Germany, who were much stronger than England. So to go through a week, or a fortnight, or three weeks at Wembley. You had no great thought this was going to be incredible experience, but it ended up as something you will remember the opposite rest of your life. You know, I've got the CD of the of the of the BBC output on that day.

Nick Gilbey 1:17:44

Can we just talk? I know we've talked about it before, but to get it on tape, here is that there were two units there weren't there, yes, and there were two main cameras that cover the action, which is from the

Harry Coventry 1:18:00

middle of the last the scene. The other Cine cameraman was Morris able. I was a senior camera on MZR 21 we each had four cameras, and there was a radio camera. So there were nine cameras all together on that programme. Morris Abel did the wide angle coverage on the main rostrum, main in the main stand. I did the close up camera on that in that area. And my cameras were in different places in inside, the ground, at low level in the there was spread around behind the goals, looking at the the the

Nick Gilbey 1:18:47

Morris didn't actually do what was standard practice. So was it, in terms of the that famous goal,

Harry Coventry 1:18:55

he did what I think, in retrospect, I would have done, I I I had a close up camera, and I had a close up of of the England player, Geoff Hurst, who I know from West Ham days. I I was being a West Ham fan all my life, and I saw Geoff Hurst, starting from his own field side of the field, going down with one intent in mind, and I had him in close up, or relatively close. Morris Abel was the wide angle, but he closed in as Jeff Hurst went down the field and got closer and closer and did saw the ball into the net in a relatively close shot. I might have been shouting the producer to cut to me, because I had him. I knew what was going to happen, and I had the ball going. Into the net as well. But there was no cut. It was really cutting almost to the same shot, because he had a zoom with the same range that I had on my camera. We both had eight, eight to 44, to 2840, zooms. And it was, it was no, no, no contest, really, he kept on. Morris Abel, Now, had I been on that camera, I think I might well have done exactly the same thing, because it it was obvious what he was going to do. So once it had gone into the net, I got onto I stayed on him, and I stayed as close as I could with his demonstration, his joy when he grabbed knobby styles, and they jumped up and down in joy. So I had the close up after that. But it was, it was a shot I'd always wanted to have on my name, rather than Morris ables, but good on him. I would have done the same.

Nick Gilbey 1:21:05

Yeah, I think it's a sort of bit of a personal thing. I don't think many people would have sort of realised what was going on.

Harry Coventry 1:21:14

Oh no, the public would not have known, because he's he just took it from the wide angle and gradually closed it as Jeff Hurst went down the field. It was perfect. It was if the producer had asked him to do it, it would have been, it would have been quite normal,

Nick Gilbey 1:21:33

but you felt it was going to go that way, didn't you? I want

Harry Coventry 1:21:37

I had the close up. I was waiting for him to cut to me with to take the close up into the goal. But he, he stayed with that, because it was developing into the shot that I had. So it became a there was no cut there until they broke away and and I could get the the reunion of Geoff Hurst and Nobby styles together, the

Nick Gilbey 1:22:08

relationship between football and the BBC in particular, has been a tricky one. And I know Peter Dimmock was very good at negotiating one of the things, I think, or was it, one of the other producers, managed to get an agreement with the Football League to start Match of the Day. Can you tell us a little bit about that? Yeah,

Harry Coventry 1:22:35

match of the day, we did my unit were down to do a programme in Liverpool, and I was asked to go and talk to the producer. And when I went to Kensington house, and he outlined the fact that we mustn't talk to the about this. It would have to be quiet, because they had got permission to do a football match, and it was going to go out that evening, and we were going to call it match of the day. But it was, it was the first, and it had been agreed, but it wasn't sure that the agreement would carry on for for more than one match, and it was Liverpool against Arsenal, and so we had to be sworn to sight silence.

Nick Gilbey 1:23:37

Why was that? Well,

Harry Coventry 1:23:39

because the cameras might stop people going to the match, and the thought that it would be out later on, on television in the evening might meant that the crowd might be half the number that turned up at Anfield. That's what the FA were dreading. In fact, we turned up, we kept it down. Everyone when we turned up there asked us what we were doing. We were non committal about everything. We rigged the cameras into the gantry, and we did the match.

Nick Gilbey 1:24:24

Sorry, would that be the day before, or

Harry Coventry 1:24:27

it was the day before? And we were fending off questions all the time, the about the van being in the car park at Anfield, and we weren't allowed to say anything about what we were doing. And it was it was fine, it, it. It turned out that it was something not to worry about, because it was a great success. S and we did. It was a start. It was the first match of the day, Liverpool against Arsenal in 1964 I think, or 65 I'm not sure, but it was the first match of the day.

Nick Gilbey 1:25:23

Would you we haven't quite finished, but would you like a break? Or I'm fine, so not too much more. But getting back to this decision to go to ABS rather than studio, it did mean basically life on the road to a certain extent. Where did you find

Harry Coventry 1:25:44

that i i It suited me, because it was every day was different. I found that it was probably very tough on my wife. I got married this day after I joined the year after I joined the BBC, and we had, eventually, two girls, two children. I spent a large portion of my life in the BBC away from home during the summers, on things like golf, which were normally a week at a time, and then you come back be in the in the office, you'd go out on another OB. So I spent a lot of my time when my children were growing up away from home, and my wife did a wonderful job bringing them up during my absence that I regret, but apart from that, I ll never get join. Joining OBS instead of studios, I think I would have found studios and going there every day claustrophobic, just in the same way that I would have found going to an office every day claustrophobic.

Nick Gilbey 1:27:01

There is a different sort of there are those who would prefer to stay in the studio, and there are then OB types, yeah,

Harry Coventry 1:27:09

I think that the the studios have a greater degree of of accuracy of their techniques and everything. We were much looser in obese and it was accepted as such. We knew the degree of planning shot wise in a studio is much more, much more set than it is in OBS. There are very, very few OBS that have the the the techniques that are employed in studios, the lighting, the the sound, the the camera work, the the actual accuracy of of positions, though them, it's a much different way of working, a much different way of life. Basically, we on outside broadcasts. We had some programmes like, you know, the climb boards and the very the operas, which were very, very precise music generally and working to mute to scores were very precise. And those programmes, those type of programmes, needed that, that that degree of accuracy, but many others were, in fact, a product of what was happening in front of you at the time, whether it was someone speaking, giving a speech as a Chancellor of the Exchequer from from Downing Street, or whether it was a golf, golfer hitting a shot, or tennis from Wimbledon or something else. It was generally covering things that were happening, and as later on, as a stage manager, I was basically helping those things to happen. Because part of a stage manager is is to affect the things that actually happen, and stopping the things from happening that could disrupt the this sort of live programme that you're presenting,

Nick Gilbey 1:29:29

did you? Did you do blind born in black and white? Days with MCR 21

Harry Coventry 1:29:34

I did? Yes. I did two blind borns from in black and white. I married your Figaro and and another

Nick Gilbey 1:29:46

so you were talking about, there's a difference between doing a sporting event and blind born. I just wonder what happened in I know it's not your sphere, but when you inside, you. Was, was a was it? Was it scripted at all? Then, oh,

Harry Coventry 1:30:04

yes, absolutely scripted. It was gline born. Was was done to the music. I mean, it was, it was thoroughly scripted, every, every, every position on the stage, every, every person. It was done as a as a proper coverage of a of a an opera. Now I've recently seen programmes in a cinema which have been done from from, from Shakespeare, from, from strafton Avon, and in exactly the same way, each each position, each word is is programmed and and shot so that you have a camera on that particular shot. And, and it was a thing in glyborne Exact every position, every person, every line of dialogue, the fact that it was sung was not mattered. It was still scripted. So it was a line of dialogue from a certain position in a certain this certain framing. So did you

Nick Gilbey 1:31:15

have a shot list or

Harry Coventry 1:31:16

Yes? Yes, shot list, two shots of three developing into a single or what every camera had its had its shot list. The only problem was that probably we were much more limited in what we could cover the cameras on either side of the stage, on rostrum close to the stage, were restricted. They were mostly on lenses rather than zooms, and they were restricted to the movement of of those people in that area on the lens they were in. They were on at that time. So it was, it was a specific shot, normally either a two shot or a three shot or a single but in that, in that area and developing as it as it happened with the cameras in the auditorium, they were on zooms, and they were given a wider brief to develop pro shots from as they happened, as the movement happened. So you had to be very careful in using a zoom, you could there's only one way to you must use a zoom on movement. If you if you just zoom in and no one's moving, it's instantly noticeable. This is a standard mistake that's still being being made. If a person is moving and you move with them, you can develop the shot and and and use it to develop that Pro, that shot. And so having zooms with music in glynbourne on the opera, it was it was beautiful, if it's done properly, it was beautiful. Did you have a special producer who did that? Or, Yes, it was an OB producer who did it. It wasn't those ones that I worked on. Were not music producers. It was, it was a an OB producer who had a particular pour in that in that

Nick Gilbey 1:33:40

area. Do you remember? Did he do the cutting? Or did you hear

Harry Coventry 1:33:44

he No, he had used the vision mixer, and the vision mixer was working to a camera script as on everything like that. I mean, even if we did excerpts from from the White Hall Theatre of a farce, it would be normally a a producer using a vision mixer, although some of the OB producers, if it was only a vital fast just an excerpt of three quarters of an hour or something, they would mix it themselves. In fact, I did one myself as a, as a later, as a director, and that was quite an experience to to actually do a half an hour Whitehall fast as a as a director,

Nick Gilbey 1:34:41

perhaps we move on to that because you decided to change your you're still with OBS, but you decided to change your role.

Harry Coventry 1:34:51

Yes, I was I. I'd seen various other people move from from cameras. Was people like Alan mount Sir, who was a very well known director in in in in outside broadcasts. I'd known Alan when he was when I first moved into the BBC. He was a cameraman in Wembley on outside broadcast, who became a stage manager and then a producer director in outside broadcasts. He He was following many other people, Bill Wright, many other stage managers had come from cameras into into direction in one way or another, and I thought that that was an area which I would like to go into. So I went. I became a stage manager, probably a little early, I was only in cameras for a total of maybe nine years, and I could probably have stayed a little longer, seen the development of colour cameras. I think I would have enjoyed that, but I enjoyed my life as a stage manager, you were was more you had more contact with the actual people of the programme. As a stage manager, you had more contact with the people making the programme, and also who were in the programme, the subjects, the artists, whatever, whichever area you were in, you were dealing with them. And between them, it was, it was a great life. I love, enjoyed it immensely. And I'm I don't regret going. And there were times when I felt I wanted to go to change my my role, and go into sport or something, which was the normal, natural way. I was actually asked to apply for associate assistant producers in sport. And at the same time, I'd done attachments in that area, and I'd done editing in on Olympics, in in Television Centre Olympic Games, and I had great, great experience in editing of videotape, so I was had no problem about applying for it. But very shortly before I applied for this position, a person I'd worked with in grandstand as the main associate assistant producer in grandstand was sacked arbitrarily one afternoon because he had applied for a job in another department without telling Brian cow Gill that he had applied for it. And then the following Saturday, he got on to the Brian cow had seen his application for another department. And as he went, got on, talked back to ring a cue through from Vt to the studio to give the cue for the next piece of videotape. Brian Cowgill went ballistic, accused Him of disloyalty and everything else. Went absolutely ballistic and sacked him on the spot. Is he in the middle of a programme?

Nick Gilbey 1:39:05

Would he he had the right to do

Harry Coventry 1:39:08

that? No, I didn't have any right to do that. But he was head of outside broadcast, as well as the as well as the producer of of the director and producer of of grandstand. At that time, he was head of outside broadcast, and he decided that he would sack him, and he did, and he said, You, you know, you won't, I think, I don't think he was head of outside broadcast. He was head of sport. He wasn't head of outside broadcast.

Nick Gilbey 1:39:48

I think there were three divisions, yeah, head of

Harry Coventry 1:39:51

broadcast, head of outside broadcast, was probably either at that time, was Peter Dimmick, but. But he was head of sport, and he did. He sacked Chris. Chris carried on the rest of the programme. How he did it, I don't know, but I was then asked to apply for his job. You know, I the job came out. Shortly afterwards, I was asked to apply for his job. I had two young children and a wife, and I'd heard this. This I'd seen Chris. Chris was then had six months sitting in the office. He had to go in the office in sport and sit there from 930 to 530 every day and do nothing. He was forced to until he didn't get the job he'd applied for. He kept applying for other jobs, and he was forced to sit there. I was then asked to apply for his job. I looked at my life at home, and my wife and my children, and I thought, Do I want this hanging over me? He was well known for his ballistic outbursts, and I just wondered whether I wanted that as my backdrop to my life.

Nick Gilbey 1:41:21

So what were you? You were a stage manager at that

Harry Coventry 1:41:25

point. I was a stage manager, but I had many attachments into grandstand editing. Videotape for on grandstand I had I was the day that Chris was sacked. I was actually in grandstand visiting, editing videotape with him. The two of us were edited the whole of grandstand that day. I cut tape, got it down to time, told him the time he he gave it to the centre. We worked different machines simultaneously. We handled grandson together. I've done that several times. The thought that I should I looked in my life, I thought, Do I want this? At that time, I thought, I can't bring myself to apply for this job, and so I didn't apply. And I'd been told that I ought to apply for it by the assistant head of outside broadcast at the time, Syd Wilkinson. He said, You should apply for this. And when I didn't apply, he called me to his office and he says, you obviously have no future in outside broadcasts and and so you better decide what else you want to do out of earlier. So I he couldn't, he had nothing to he couldn't take me out of out stage managers. Because, you know, I was, I had that position. I was there already, but he made it was very cold

Nick Gilbey 1:43:10

and sorry. This is Cyril Wilkinson,

Harry Coventry 1:43:13

yes, the assistant. He was relaying basically what Brian coward said to him, that you have no because I'd been chosen by buying Cowgill to to fill that job, basically. And so I didn't, didn't, I didn't. I'd been chosen by Brian Cowgill before that to go to Olympic Games to look after his his pet. Brian Cowgill chose David, David Coleman, and everything to do with David Coleman was immediately from Brian Cowgill. So when I was looking after, uniquely, after David Coleman on everything on in football match of the days and in in Wembley Cup finals, on Olympic Games, he was, I was being chosen by Brian cow Gill to look after David Coleman. So for that, at that point, I was Brian coward, chosen person to take that position in in grandstand. The fact I didn't apply for it was like he took it personally, and he decided that he would

Nick Gilbey 1:44:48

put the, I mean, you were a dedicated BBC person. I was, and you think in those days there were, don't know what you'd like to call it BBC czars or or such. Which don't exist today.

Harry Coventry 1:45:01

No, I mean, I don't think the thing could happen now, but the outburst of Brian Cowgill, the outburst were, were legendary. Legendary, absolutely, I remember I was doing a studio with David Coleman in Grenoble on the Olympic Games, and David had been shipped off to do to a ski resort to do commentary on an event, and and Peter Dimmock was put in the studio. And Peter Dimmock was was unhappy with the auto cue, which was a crazy, crazy little machine that perched on top of the camera. And he rang his wife afterwards and asked her whether he was we could be seen looking into the camera. And she said he could, and she was unhappy about it. She told him he was unhappy about it. And he went to Brian, got Brian coward girl in the studio, and he said, This is unprofessional. And of course, Cowgill to call him unprofessional was like a red rag to a bull. And he immediately went into orbit and called Peter Dimmock, head of broadcast, head of outside broadcast, called him all the names under the sun, and said, you can go, I'm going in I'm going in the morning. You can do the programme yourself, you know. And he, he, he vented his spleen for about five minutes on Peter Emerick, who sat back in the chair and went white. The next morning, Peter Dimmock caught the next plane back to to to London. I went back to the hotel after this programme, this outburst, Brian was in the bar in the hotel. I walked in. Oh, hello, Harry. Would you like a drink and and I had a beer. Brian, as though nothing had happened. He, he, there was no reference at all to what had happened after then the fact that with Brian that Peter do, he's gone back to to London, and he was still there. Just was

Nick Gilbey 1:47:35

water under the bridge. I think there was a strange because, as you said, basically Peter Dimmock was his boss. But I interviewed Peter Dimmock, and I think his attitude had always been a little bit like that, that Brian coward when he was producing grandstand or, Oh no, the one that Peter Dimmock actually used to present. And Brian turned to Peter Dimm and said, you're my boss. But on this programme, I'm the boss, yeah, and I think they had that sort of relationship,

Harry Coventry 1:48:10

Brian. Brian, Peter was had the contacts. He had the contacts through the through the palace, through the various other through the racing world, gracing. You know the grace and favour people around the palace, in the in the big things like the FA and the various large organisations Peter had the contacts Brian would make the person work. I've seen Brian make big golfing producers cry like babies when he vented his spleen at them. There was one gentleman who did a lot of golf and him at one time in the Commonwealth Games. This guy was presenting, was was producing, directing and cargo took him in the van outwards, and he had him in tears. He was a quivering jelly. And this guy was six foot two and built like an ox, and Cowgill had him like a jelly. Now, Brian Cowgill was ex paratroop Colonel or something in the war, he was a tough cookie, and he is he when he invented his spleen. You knew it, but I don't think that sort of way would ever be, would ever be justified. Now,

Nick Gilbey 1:49:59

no. Definitely couldn't go. Of course, he did have his comeuppance when he went to Thames and he was sacked there.

Harry Coventry 1:50:05

Yeah, we probably from trying to do the same thing. A lot of the people that left the BBC before I joined. I joined at a time when so many people had left the BBC to go to Thames that it provided places for for us to join. And many of those people, when I actually worked with some of them afterwards and at the time, I mean, I worked Wimbledon on a camera, and I we were side by side with ITV. And one day I was back to my camera on, on number one chord, and I saw the ITV site light flashing for the camera, and they were desperate to get hold of him and he they were still at lunch. So I just picked up the earphones, put them on, and said, Hello, and open up. Open up. We dip. So I opened the ITV camera up, and I did it for maybe five minutes on their programme, until the IV went puffing up. And I handed him the earphones, and he took over the camera and and and carried on. So we, we had no problem with the guys from ITV. And I've, I've had very pleasant relationship with several big directors from ITV that I worked with on independent programmes afterwards, but I think they got the the that they were the gold headed ones went,

Nick Gilbey 1:51:43

they were golden years, I suppose, to begin with. But then they started to be looking at the money side. Yes, maybe,

Harry Coventry 1:51:52

yeah, the money was much better and and so it drew a lot of the good people from every area of the BBC at the time.

Nick Gilbey 1:52:05

So with that encounter with Brian Coco, I mean, you think that in a way halted anything that you might do within the BBC,

Harry Coventry 1:52:15

it did. I mean, it basically said to me, Well, you can carry on in in stage managers. And I loved what I was doing. Every Monday was different. And so there was no problem about that. I was enjoying what I did. I did royal weddings. I worked on the wedding of of of Prince Edward and Sophia, and I had nice chat afterwards with them and and with the bishop. Who, who, who married them, sent me a lovely letter afterwards thanking me for for my help. So you get a feeling that you helped make those programmes special for them as well. I that personal feeling. I wanted to do other things. I had an attachment to religion. I directed several programmes in in on Sunday mornings for religious broadcasting, live outside broadcasts with with full units up in Scotland, in in Wembley and various places. So I did direct those in those programmes, and I directed them to their delight. They were quite happy with with what I did. And so I was perhaps interested in in joining religion, although it didn't happen, and I did an attachment to events into a different area in Television Centre, but I never really felt that I was going to get something which was as fulfilling as what I was doing On in every day. I didn't have the the I uh, the the the salary that I thought my output in those of my my the effect that I had on some programmes warranted. We weren't. We weren't regarded as as as a good thing in outside broadcast, because we were unsettling, as far as assistant producers were concerned, because we were earning more money with overtime in a year, much more than assistant producers who were going through hell. With Brian coward and the rest of them every week in grandstand in the in the centre on videotape. We they were envious in some of the whole the OB producer thought that we were getting of the fact that we got overtime as operators, and we earned lots of overtime with the with the programmes we did.

Nick Gilbey 1:55:26

So we're so sorry, really sorry. Were the assistant producers salaried then? And that was they

Harry Coventry 1:55:32

were salaries. Yeah, were salaried, and they, they didn't get overtime. Basically, we were salaried. We got less of a salary, but we got overtime, which meant that sometimes we could maybe earn half as much again over the year.

Nick Gilbey 1:55:55

And what about expenses? Sometimes twice as much, but you could claim expenses. We could claim

Harry Coventry 1:56:01

expenses. We were going here, there and everywhere and and because we were on expenses, we were not spending our own money. It was gain. It was It was meant that we could put more money into our bank or into our family or whatever. That was an unsettling it was, it had been unsettling for years in production department of outside broadcast, so there was no no no help in getting stage managers Maybe regraded. I wanted to get the grade made higher, maybe for with a less overtime, higher salary, but less overtime and but this was, this was wiped out by by the either the union or by more so, more likely, by the production department themselves.

Nick Gilbey 1:57:06

It was, what sort of years are we talking about?

Harry Coventry 1:57:10

Are we talking about

Harry Coventry 1:57:18

about I

Harry Coventry 1:57:24

uh, 7078, 80, onwards. It was, it was, it was the time when, when the, I think it was probably, yeah, probably around mid 80s.

Nick Gilbey 1:57:50

So going back, what do you think your blessed years were with the BBC?

Harry Coventry 1:57:56

I have two, two areas. My time on cameras will always be special to me, because of the things we did, and the the feeling that you, that you had behind a camera, and the sort of things you if you worked well, if you worked on on a production which was intricate and which had things that were very precise and evolving. And you could get a feeling of real satisfaction having done that. That was great. And you could see your your output as it went on the screen. That's my camera at that point. I can see when I look back at the World Cup final, I know when my camera every time they cut to a close up camera. That's me when he scores the final goal and goes to and embraces Nobby styles. That was me. I get the feeling the satisfaction of knowing what I did at that time and doing a good job. I hope at certain times, I did some jobs, one job on cameras as a senior cameraman in an ice skating rink, and the other three cameras went down, and this was all live, and did you have a zoom? I had a zoom, and I covered 25 minutes of a three quarters of an hour programme on one camera. And the the I think I used that zoom as it should be used. I was absolutely aware that I was the only camera and I had to use it on movement, and I did it. And the guy sitting in the camera in the van at the time was the head of. Of of the the operation side of outside broadcast. He was head of of the, really the cameras. And he came up to me afterwards, and he said he'd never seen a better use of a camera, which was made me feel 10 feet tall. It was great. I know I did a good job, but I know I did a good job on that. I know there are programmes I've done since I left the BBC I did. I've done things as a floor manager when I shouldn't have been working, when my wife had just died, I should not have been working. And I did two programmes, one in a with which was in a boys school in London, in Harrow School. And I should not have been working on that programme. And I, my mind was, was totally elsewhere. And I did another programme on golf, when as a, as a, as a hired hand in a golfing programme for a production company. I shouldn't have been working on that again, because I hadn't. I was still in a state of total Limbo two weeks after my wife had died, and I'd only just buried her, I shouldn't have worked on everything else I did BBC. I think I was happy with

Nick Gilbey 2:01:49

good I mean, you the other thing that when you were stage manager and you met all those interesting people, in fact, you were the BBC as far as they were concerned, because the director was in the van and you were there.

Harry Coventry 2:02:06

That was the main point. You know, I could work. I did a programme, working with Andre Previn of the Fairfield halls, a music programme, and I actually had to go out and address the audience, first of all, and and, you know, give them this sort of lowdown that we were recording this programme, and that we might, if things were not right, we might have to stop it, and that sort of thing. And at the same time, I could hear the producer in my ear, who was a lovely guy, and he was taking the Mickey. Come on, Harry, give them some stick, lad. And in the end, I I almost dried up. I had to take ceremoniously, I had to take this ear phone out tell the public I've had to take this out because I'm getting barred by the director in the van, and then go through the spiel and say, you know, so I hope you alone, enjoy it. I hope we don't have to interrupt it and carry on. And I had to, every time I did anything, I had to talk directly to Andre Previn. So to Andre Previn. I was that Mr. BBC to the audience. I was Mr. BBC to the orchestra. I was Mr. BBC. And that feeling you don't lose that if you're running the floor on a come dancing or something, and you've got your dance, you've got all these people that you're directing them in a sinner in a way. You're whipping them up into a frenzy when you have to, because you're, you're, you're looking for audience participation. So you have them. You you pre arrange it. You get them in the breaks, you come on. Are you ready for all this? You you get them on their toes so that when you start the next piece, you can have them the people around the floor, if you want them up and dancing. To end the piece, you get them up. They're up. Instantly. The floor is full of people dancing. That just doesn't happen on its own. You have to get into those people. Get them excited about it. Get tell them what is going to happen. Tell them how you're going to use them to give vitality into the programme. And then, if you tell them what your signal will be, and then when you give them that signal, you just give them, and the floor is full of people dancing, and they've enjoyed it. It made the programme. You know, that's what you're there for, and you are making that programme better,

Nick Gilbey 2:04:56

yes, but you're also from a personal point of view. You're you're meeting bishops and Roy Absolutely.

Harry Coventry 2:05:05

I met Harold Macmillan. Harold Wilson. I've worked with Howard Wilson in his house in in Buckinghamshire, not far from here, actually, just down the road in great missinden. I've worked with Ted Heath in Admiralty house when the the number 10 was being done up Margaret Thatcher, with all their various accolades, their their chancellors of the Exchequer, I've done Chancellor speeches from number 10, several times you you have, you meet. You're meeting and talking with bishops, with people who are taking part in the programme. You're putting them. You're enabling them to do their thing easily, because sometimes,

Nick Gilbey 2:06:00

but they have to rely on you to tell them what to do in a

Harry Coventry 2:06:05

way. Yeah, you have to explain it to them in a way which doesn't frighten them. You have to explain getting down to something which makes them relax and so that they can be who they are. They can actually give the best that they can. And if you can do that, and from someone who is shaking like a leaf two minutes beforehand, then you know you've actually done a really good job. It never shows. It doesn't go on your on your report at the end of the day, no one actually knows what you said to that guy in the ante room before he came and sat in front of a camera and delivered this, this peach. They don't know what you did, which is I found was,

Nick Gilbey 2:07:03

but the people that you're the people advising do, and that's probably why they want to have a drink with you

Harry Coventry 2:07:09

afterwards. And I have a I was looking at yesterday. I've got a sheath of letters from people writing to me afterwards, the the bishop who married Prince Edward, wrote to me afterwards, I've got his letter. Hazel Erwin from the from the snooker, wrote to me when I after I stopped working on the snooker, and she wrote me a lovely little note. People, producers, directors, they will write you if they know that you've done a good job, if you've done something special, they know, but many times, they will just do their job and not know what you did to get it there. There was one time at Buckingham Palace when we it was live, the Queen was on the balcony of Buckingham Palace, and we were doing a programme on a boy scouts annual it was, it was some special boy scouts programme, and they had a parade of flaming torches down the mall, which went into Buckingham Palace, and the Queen was out on the balcony with the royal family. There was a lot of press and our cameras on in front of the balcony, and all these people were throwing flaming torches as they walked into the courtyard of Buckingham Palace, into two skips, or into a skip In the centre of Buckingham Palace. And someone had arranged this skip. They hadn't arranged how they would put out the flaming torches that were going into it. Very soon, there was a bonfire going up, and there was a lot of smoke blowing towards the balcony. My my friend, my other stage manager, myself. He tried to look to put it out. I rushed into Buckingham Palace. I got a got at one of the staff. I said, bring every, every fire extinguish you have outside straight away and warn the Fire Fire Brigade, the palace fire brigade. So we got, I, he bought, got a progressive P people out. I. With fire extinguishers we've got either side of this skip, as they were still putting them in, which we're letting off every fire extinguisher into the skip and trying to put out the fire or stop the smoke going over the the the no one ever knows what you did.

Nick Gilbey 2:10:20

I didn't tell you what I was gonna say the

Harry Coventry 2:10:23

programme. The programme went out the the the peep the press on the balcony, on the rostrum, and our cameras were cursing all the smoke that did go over, but no one knew what they could have been a total, bloody conflict, confirmation, conflagration on that in that skip, if there weren't the pair of us letting every fire extinguisher and parking Palace off into that skip to try and stop. So you at the end of the day, you know, you sit back and you say, I've made my mark on this programme. It went out and it didn't stop, because I did a good job, and no one will ever know about it.

Nick Gilbey 2:11:11

Well, that seems to like a good way to end the interview. It certainly illustrates the multi skill job stage managing for the BBC can be Thank you very much. Applause.