Joe Mendoza

BEHP transcript Disclaimer

This transcript has been produced automatically using Otter, https://get.otter.ai/interview-transcription/.

It provides a basic, but unverified or proofread transcript of the interview. Therefore, the British Entertainment History Project (BEHP) accepts no liability for any misinterpretation of the content of this interview.

However, the BEHP wants to make every effort to improve the quality of these transcripts and would welcome any voluntary offers to proofread this and/or other interviews. If you want to help, please contact BEHP Secretary,  sue.malden@btinternet.com.

Rodney Giesler  0:03  
This interview with Joe Mendoza recorded by Rodney Giesler on the third of September 1993, to Boscastle. Joe to begin with, can you can you tell me when you were born? Yes, I'll go on to describe how you came to be in the film industry.

Joe Mendoza  0:22  
 So I was born 921 in southeast London.

event, what date 29th of January, when the query and my family were sort of we in trade, we had a whole chain of fashion in Photoshop, confectionery, tobacco shops, all over, all over South London. And the whole idea was that you know, that when I got a big wide take over the business, but I sort of got infected with some very early because a friend of mine had a nine half millimetre camera, and I look at all this holiday pictures. And then then eventually, I went to some Paul's School. And they had a wish to have a film show every time and I saw the battleship tank. And I thought I, this is what I want to do. And, oh, I bought out Mike, the Cindy world and everything. But then when I was 13, when I was vomits, for I was given a movie camera. I tried to make films with it and everything. And while it was really due to my computer at school, when you when you go to samples, you'd have a Master's looks after your through your whole career. And as a person, not a teacher. And I've told him, I was so keen on films, and my family thought it was a headless idea. And he gave me a tremendous amount of moral support really in this. And he was we used to have to write an essay every month, and he wouldn't accept anything less than 24 pages. And he used to give you a very sort of wide brief his essay and one of them was my sort of favourite art form or something. So I wrote him a tremendous screed about movies. And he said, it's quite obvious you must do it. So anyway, I went entirely on my own efforts. I just I was learning the violin at the time. And my violin teacher would told me about her. Okay, so why are you alive right now it was my mind and tissues when she told me I know talked about what I want to do and everything. And oh, she had a friend of hers joined the reason st Polytechnique for clinicals. So I found out about it. And I said to my mother, you know what, I've got my levels whatever it was, I'm going to play my father had died and what unfortunately for that house but I think if he had been alive, I would never have made it but I twisted my mother's arm and all my family all sorts of terrible idea. And I said that because they wanted me to go to university and some Paul's wanted me to stay on and do hires and go to university and I said no, I want to go to college. You know, I did I did about the poly course it's a two year course. The first year you do the first year you do a three year still photography course crammed into one year. And then the second year you do a lot of sort of heat light and sound and organic chemistry. And then the holiday between in the summer holiday between the two years you make a movie and you spent the next year I know cancelling it and cutting it and everything but you know that the I was always sort of I was always trying new clothes in the house 16 I was the youngest person there. But I didn't want to make a film like all the other people I will commentary I want to make film without commentary is I made a film about I thought What do you know about didn't watch by end in June about London. So I made a film about London in the summer, which was a bit obvious but it hadn't accompany was all music I got terribly sort of hooked on the Russian ballet and, and Debussy and Ravel and all that stuff. And Stravinsky. So the end, of course, the polyimide course finished in July 1939, which was a good year. The war started in September. So I thought it was all what I tried very hard to get into the denim labs and places but everybody was clapping sticks in the corner was going to Hollywood. So I decided the suggestion of a friend of mine, that I do a training course of becoming a wireless operator. Because the minute the awards started coming about wireless operator, merchant, Merchant Navy, you know, and I was halfway through that course and jack Lee ran out. Get Lee had only lost in one year of he was there were nine of us in the Bali course. jacket only lasted one year, he'd run out of money and he got another job with a GPS. And he rang me up and said, When are you going to be called up j? So I said, What about yours time? Oh, he said, Well, would you like to work at the GPO. I said, Oh my God, we don't have to do. He said well, we look we're looking for some sort of young assistants, you know. So I said, Well, what about college and he was my mate. She didn't want to bring him along to sort of Bingo. Next week I was working in GPL format and I stopped my my merchant navy course. And I had my my friend with me as well, common tenor.

Rodney Giesler  5:12  
Who else was on your course who went on to go into the media industry?

Unknown Speaker  5:15  
Well,

Joe Mendoza  5:18  
the only person who made it as far as I know, into the film business as such was Ken Scrivener, you know, Ken, he was on that court with me. I have another very good friend with whom I'm still in touch with called Douglas Rendell he, he's basically a stills, stills man, he made the film you made in the year was about the matrix, a ship canal, which is still away and shown all over the place, you know. And then he's doing video, a video now for a friend of his, but he never really made it into the movie business. One guy, Steven, Steven Foster, a very public school or thickie, he suddenly turned up in the Navy. He was seconded to the film section for somebody short period of time, but why and under what circumstances I didn't know. So jack and I and Ken Scrivener, the only people who sort of made anything made the grade as far as I know.

Unknown Speaker  6:18  
What would you write anyhow?

Rodney Giesler  6:19  
You you've got to the GPO Film Unit. Yes. Who was there? Who did you first work for? What did you do?

Joe Mendoza  6:25  
The first drama, how did you perform? It was working with Japanese a system he was cutting a film. I didn't know how much detail you want. But at that stage, the GPO was sort of half taken over by the government. And what I mean, I was only a kid so I wasn't sort of in in all the APA decisions. What was happening was, you know, about Cavalcanti and his French film industry relationship. They've done they've done a thing with France. We were going to make government films about the war ethic with France. And we started making we did the first one they made was called factory front, which was shot half in France, half in England about you know, war factors and things. JACK was cutting the English version of it and also directed a few bits of shots. So I was working on that with him. Eventually, we started to make a sort of a French newsreel journal the gear and Robert hammer came in to edit that because they had to have somebody who speak French. But then of course after the fall of France, it all just disappeared.

Rodney Giesler  7:30  
Was Carol caveator directing these films?

Joe Mendoza  7:32  
No, he had sort of he had director cameraman over look over the pair sooner do a no shot bring this was your brain this was the handover from Francis your real estate. Brilliant read write the commentaries and things like that. Then anyway, then I worked with gently and then I was put onto a film with North Norton good no matter how came it is a wonderful man. Wonderful man. I absolutely worship man. And we are working on the film called merchant seaman jackhammers metre. Then I was taken off out of the country number one stage, because we will then we were working with two units about a chaps coming off a rat ship. Harry did Harry What did half of it drunk homes at half? Get Lee was seconded to jack combs as well as a sort of, sort of top assistant runcam unit manager you know. So I worked with jack on that clip in that capacity at Merton Seaman. And I also worked with Harry who Harry hated me because he thought I was a terrible, snobby overeducated public school. But that was most insane. And then of course, I came back and worked in the catching on one merchant seaman, because, you know, I could expect a Mac or at least all the things that were happening after motion semen. Oh, then of course, there's the famous film London can take it. I don't. You've seen it when the CMI were putting out films, five minute films, in the cinemas, you see. And the newsreels were getting rather annoyed because other companies were being commissioned by the CEO of automated films. The new sales didn't get anything. So pressure was brought by the newsreel people on the ministry informations It was then they make a film for the cinemas. They wanted them to make format the London Blitz which was happening at that time, very considerably. And anyway, we will get to see all the material and make a movie out of it. Well, Harry and I'm jet set for today isn't Haryana and accept for days and days and days in Lime Grove laboratory looking at Israel mature and I was supposed to making a list of the shots that we use for everyday hair is it it's crap it's just terrible crap is not filmed at all or is not in good newsreels. Nothing. So anyway, we went through the motions that we would make a film out of the newsreel material. back by chance, we started shooting stuff ourselves and Goes eventually by the time the film was made, there was only one usual shot in it. It was a polite way of getting around way. It was a tremendous experience for me because the film was made literally. Once they started shooting, the film was made in 10 days with two units. We were working in denim labs, with two editors, McAllister and macaron. jackley. And Harry did one part of the film and Humphrey Jennings to the other part of the film. And we had two edges on it mature Norton and McAllister, and I was the piggy in the middle, I was the only person that knew where everything was, I had to list all the shots, you know, and people would say, you remember a shot with the bus upside down? And I said, Yes, that's in Britain level, it was like that, you know. And it was it. We work continuously for 10 days and 10 nights, we actually didn't really sleep on the cutting room floor, because the film had to be finished. And it had to catch a certain plane to New York, you know, quaint Reynolds, who did it with Clint there, Clint, Clint had to take it to New York. Well, we did it. But it was it was a fabulous thing to have done. Because what was interesting about it, of course, was the fact that it started McAllister and Humphrey working on this sort of sound plus poetry or something else, predicting it very simply. And it also because McAllister was always a very sort of silent, it turned in chap who never will never talk to anybody, you know, but he started to get on with Humphrey, because they're both highly eccentric people. And that's really what started this wonderful relationship with Humphrey. And

Rodney Giesler  11:38  
then I worked with Supreme Court, but Norton and McAllister said, You've got to distinguish between Mike Norton and McAllister Matt

Joe Mendoza  11:47  
McAllister many, many, many years that I worked for McAllister when he was a producer to British British Rail, transport, British transport process, I guess. Anyway, then I made a film with Charles I worked as an assistant director to Charles hassy on a film about the police called war and order. There may work we had two units on Coastal Command, Jet Li were directly the second was depth assistant. We went to Iceland on that and either that was interesting because guess what jack was very decent to me because I was all nervous sort of highly strung sort of guy Luffy scared of flying in an aeroplane jet knew this knew but knew I'd have to do it. So he said, Would you go up to our morning with a weather chap and the average so on my own I was at went out with a pilot, you know, we sort of scooted around there and I thought that was funny because I'd been hired by the volunteer for the feedhorn. On that I passed all my tests, physical tests and my maths more paper, but on the interview, they decided that I was too highly strung to fly. You see, so many years later, when I reapplied to join St. Ives in the Navy. I saw cause delay, who to the interview board to tell me what actually you know, you said I was no, no, you said I was too highly strung too far, but actually, I've been flying for a long time. I mean, how much detail Do you want all this is lovely. Fine. Well, wait, Charles has a we were making a whirlwind order and we were in the Kentish hopfield working with the police hoping that we would catch German parachutists being arrested. Well, we didn't get a catch one, but one came down in a field trip pack near us and it was all really, really gruesome the whole plane and all the crew of people have blown into tiny pieces and pieces that people are having on the apple trees. I'll never forget it really. But of course, that was the night that they started bombing London really, really hard in September 14. And so then the rest of my time was you know, was I used to sort of cycled to work in southeast London you know, had this sort of personal bomb in Kennington house would everybody around me was sort of blown out but I got off my bike is this is the cycle Sarah square. And

Rodney Giesler  14:16  
then he moves on

Joe Mendoza  14:17  
well, eventually eventually then my house was bombed was destroyed it was destroyed on May the 10th 1941 the night the St Paul's night then I came and the door right he was so productive about doing the right productive. We had a woman production manager who was very unusually but the very chauvinist outfit the key pair for me but it was decided that we put the unit's we've got not so much big but if you've got so wanted to have such a wide variety of interests, and the pictures were getting more complicated, needed more organisation, wasn't just one guy with a camera and see what it looks like. So we got hold of a production manager, pro features, daughter, right, she'd worked as a secretary and then as a production manager to Victor's Tablo Novac to several isn't Lime Grove. And then she moved with it to several to cordeaux in quarter victim made these various three low budget pictures in in denim. So anyway, Dora became production manager and bingo, she's a very, very tough lady. You know, she could stand up all these bloody intellectuals, that GPO and everybody, you know, became extremely fond of her. Okay, shocking to you. Still when the house was bombed, my mother moved into a hotel and door said we were walking there. Did you Joey? So I said, Well, now, you know. I just keep coming into studio and everything. Because we did we by that time we'd been evacuated to den and we evacuated to Bradley studio in toto library and me and my mate, we moved the library. So door said, Well, what are you going to do is I said, Well, what I'll get digs in Oxbridge. She said, can we work? You know? We've got this big farmhouse. There's a big attic there. She said, you know, Jack's got one, one attic. No, would you like the other one? So I moved on down to Denon. And that really is what fix me about living in the country. Because I'd been in London all my life. I'd never ever. I used to have a week in Buckinghamshire, maybe that Easter time when I was a child. But to actually be in the country and see the whole year round in the country was wonderful to me. You know, it was a completely new experience. And I thought, well, one day I'll live in a country

Rodney Giesler  16:27  
where there was a country that

Joe Mendoza  16:29  
wasn't going to share phones and Peter was it was really it was a nice place.

Rodney Giesler  16:33  
Just going back to Coastal Command before we leave. Yes, of course. You mentioned you were working with jack Lee on one unit and of course the other jack jack homes.

Joe Mendoza  16:43  
Where jack jack and I did everything to do with the Hudson do having to remember test. Japanese I will Jacqueline I was just a stitch. We had everything to do with the Hudson's we did with the Hudson's we're based in Iceland. We did all longshots in Iceland. We did all close ups to do with the Hamptons in on the Isle of Viola because it looks fairly like Iceland. Semi mountainous and bloody and muddy. And we did all this stuff with the Hudson's you know, based in England at East Kurtz outside Grimsby it was an operational unit. And you know, it was really it was really the war who knew he was there with an operation unit and they'd be sorted at night and fellas wouldn't come back you know and and one got very one got involved with the mess and the guys you know. And then did all the Catalina stuff. Get no get get into the Catalina jack comes to the Kathleen's Yes, yes,

Unknown Speaker  17:47  
please do jack

Joe Mendoza  17:48  
yes to Jack's Max daksa max at no moq No, McNaughton was cutting it but I didn't I wasn't involved in in coastal commander, cutting room at all.

Unknown Speaker  18:00  
Then

Joe Mendoza  18:02  
Then, of course, listen to Britain, Stata started. Now this is very complicated, very detailed, you will know about why Humphrey makes movies. Okay. Well, Humphrey never made a film that started out as the film we started out to me. He had an idea about making a film about Britain, waiting to be invaded, like Britain was waiting to be evaded by Napoleon. And he got a lot of stuff in the army, and he did a lot of research and everything. And then he started in Pune, then they decided that he should have a professional scriptwriter. And they took on Vulcan vilhelm does that name mean anything to Ross Campbell and was going to work with Humphrey on this. And then Humphrey changed his mind about the whole thing didn't work out. So he decided to make from Westminster Abbey. They did a lot of research and started making fun of Westminster Abbey. And then that didn't ever happen. And then the next then the National Gallery concerts, were making news, you know? And somebody said, Well, why doesn't the unit make a film about a National Gallery in Kansas? So Humphrey and Wolfgang started getting on the idea of making a film about National Gallery concerts. And Wolfgang suggested that they did. The bath is Brandenburg Concerto. There's a number of hops, Gordon? I think the trumpet and violin company call harpsichord violin flute, I think. So. I was then told that I would have to work with Humphrey, because I knew about music. Well, I cried. I said, Look, you know, I can't get on with Humphrey. I don't understand Humphrey. I'm just a lead, honestly, door. I mean, I had this thing. When I went into office. I said, Look, you know, he gets through two or three assistants would never speak dawned on every picture, you know, and I can't cope with that sort of thing. You know, I mean, he's a man I'm a boy. You know, I can't cope with it. I mean, I couldn't run I can run a unit project Lee or miss comes because they're nice people and we speak the same language but Humphrey and I completely different from each other. I mean, you know, I couldn't I couldn't stand him, you know? So Dora said, Look, Humphrey is just a bully. She said, Nobody has ever stood I mean button. Judy, Judy inspire? Would you inspire it was Heather complete nervous breakdown after six weeks with Humphrey that I wasn't going to go through that scene. So she said, Look, Humphrey is just an overbearing bully who frightens people because he talks incessantly and loudly. He said, You stand up hungry. I said, Well, how can I stand up? No. 19 is a grown man, you know, she said, Look, you stand up country, you just make Humphrey make the movie. And that's all you have to worry about is the movie. Don't you worry about Humphrey. She said.

Unknown Speaker  20:45  
Whatever

Joe Mendoza  20:46  
happens with Humphrey, I will give you a half my entire support. I will bet throughout whatever happens, if you have a screaming around with Humphrey, I will back you up whatever happens, I will bet throughout. So I said, well, it's at a promise you status is promised. So I thought, okay, I'll give it a go. I mean, if you've got that kind of moral support? Well, I did. I was always shy. And after that time free. We did the, what he said about it, I said, Look, if you're going to show me this film with a synonymized, Humphrey, you know, the barf brand button churches sounds like handle as far as I'm concerned. It's like church music. I said, it's got everything that means classical for classical music. I said, You know, I said, Is it going to be just a few shots in the film? He said, Well, it'd be quite a big sequence. I said, we're looking at, quite frankly, don't have the Brandenburg. We say, all right, watch. I have I said all we're what have Mozart have a moped, I have a Mozart clarinet concerto? Oh, we'll find some jetters. So I went to HMV. Notice endorsements. And I chose to the 453 in G major. And for 15, B flat. I said, Humphrey, you know, listen to this, listen to her through this, see what you think of it. So he chose the G major. Then, of course, they'd never had an orchestra, the National Gallery before. So I talked to my IRA has about you said, Well, you know, we, we need to perform. So I said, Well, I'll keep, I didn't know how to get them on your platform. But I asked around, and I and I asked the National Gallery themselves. And they actually did have a sort of big, big sort of platform and things are put together, you know, but in fact, they didn't have enough so we had there a whole lot me, but they were all made on the budget. And then I thought we better have a carpet. I got in touch with john lewis or something like that to come up and said, You know, I told him I said, Look, we want to carpet, that gave me a car. So we got a telephone, we got a carpet and we got the Royal Air Force orchestra and everything and we got Mara Mara was happy to do that whole thing was always in good publicity for her. And it was very good to me character good for me, because not only had I organised something from nothing at all, you know, worked out how to get it from No, but I mean, I'm not really wasn't a very experienced guy, you know, as a lad, really. But without I discovered something about myself, which was most important thing. I mean, I could never talk in public never. I could never talk talk in public or raise my voice and make myself known, you know. But you know, we were there. We had this volunteer audience mind music, teacher mommies for instant people, when we had an audience for 250 that we had to make, like, seven or 800. So we got the audience, I stand up and I said, Look, all these people here, will you follow over over there and then only people they will come and find me like, you're talking to 250 people you aren't scared, you know? And that was terribly important. I mean, it was one of those sort of, it sounds ridiculous. But it's a turning point in my life that when I was interested, I'm never pulled

Rodney Giesler  23:47  
the sequence of the National Gallery of a diary of a Timothy you moved on by them to do with it?

Joe Mendoza  23:51  
Yes, that was a that was. That was your passion. artesanato video guess we didn't

Rodney Giesler  23:56  
cam Clark? Yes. The Queen? Yes, we

Joe Mendoza  24:00  
know the Queen was national carry. Well, that was the other thing you see, because Myra rang me up one day. And she said Mr. Mendoza. I've been told I'm getting an honour in the New Year Honours. And the Queen's coming to the concert. Which would you like to photograph as I said, Tell Tommy's a good highlight photograph that was all laid on separately, even if the plane I mean, last stop. Now you tell me what else you want.

Rodney Giesler  24:27  
Maybe I was just jumping ahead for director Timothy. Yes. While you're talking about this. And for Britain, I'd like to hear a bit more about that. I'd like for instance, to hear a bit about the sequence on the factory floor. Yes, my darling daughter sequence that peter out as soon as it started. There was one that seemed to Peter out in the film as soon as it started. Was it shot at a greater length and cut down?

Joe Mendoza  24:51  
No, Humphrey McAllister. We're working very closely there. They worked out the shape of the film. It was not the was not haphazardly shaped. It probably never had a script. I mean, hum Humphries scripted a national get the, the film's Humphrey started making in the National Gallery was about Trafalgar Square and the National Gallery. That was all. But he, after we'd finished the deal in the marriage shoot in here, and Mark went away on holiday. And they got this idea of making a film about Britain at war in terms of sound. That was the big change. And they worked up to sort of a shape for it. Yes, my darling daughter was done because we had that because it was the only two that wasn't copyright. I found that hungry because there was a little bit about in a PA and copyright and the unit couldn't afford the copyright fees and HMV wouldn't release anything. But in actual fact, yes, my only daughter was was stolen from the Czech flag, like beer barrel pelco. That was what we use the beer barrel pokhran in national in the blackboard to airborne because there were no rights on it. They had a fit, they've said that the CEO of I had a fit about music rights. You know, God knows what roll out the barrel roll up now. That's right. Yes. Yes. That was also in a pinch from the checks as well. So you but yes, my darling daughter was just they wanted something Humphrey wanted something in a factory. And I said, Well, what do you want? He said, Well, I just want nice people singing joining in. So I said, What boys or girls chaps what was the one? That was pretty girls. I said, Well, what about the Gillette factory? This used to pass through the little factory every day going to denim. I said, What about Gillette factory is all full of girls. No packing, I'd be the little movements with the razor blades in the hands and things. So Humphrey, I went and had a look at how we did with this good idea. So it was just short for that for that amount.

Rodney Giesler  26:45  
So it was shot in the Gillette factory. Oh, yeah. Because they're all machines. Because they're all part of the rhythm. That's right. Yeah.

Joe Mendoza  26:53  
But I mean, every every, every sequence in the national listen to Britain, Humphrey, it will come to me and say, I want to something. I mean, he said, we'll go. You know what time you're coming. My train stops in the middle of the night, you're going to waver is in the middle of that you don't know where you are, where you come out happening. And so I said yes. Okay, well, what do you want? So I said, Well, I don't know what people. So I said, Well, what about soldiers? So he said, Yes, soldiers, okay, find me some soldiers that look good. How do I find soldiers in the middle of a war? So then, so then, so he said to me, soldiers a long way from home? So I said, Well, some black Canadians, yes, Canadians. So I went up to Canadian bush house, you know, wherever was Canadian, Canada house. And they found me sort of 24 Canadian soldiers who were on sick leave. And then the thing about Humphrey said to me about the music, he said, Well, you better get one that plays an accordion, they can sing or something. So I did that. So then he said, Well, what should they sing? So I said, Well, you know, do you want to Canadian folk song or something? He said, what we didn't think. So I said, What do you know, Home on the Range? He said, No. So we'll have that we have a mother raised us.

Unknown Speaker  28:10  
They were Scottish.

Joe Mendoza  28:13  
Canadian, Canadian, Scottish. But it was not at all all through. I mean,

with some sling ideas that may seem I say, Well, what about this? What about that? And it was, I mean, I did all the unit management on booking hotels. I mean, come on. I had a terrible, really, which was because he said, we're shooting tomorrow. I said, We don't shoot tomorrow. We're travelling tomorrow. He said, what I wanted an extra day here. I said, Look hungry. All the hotels are booked all the train fares book. It's all arranged. I said, you know, but by that time, we had a big unit. No, we had about 10 sparks up in Blackpool, you know, which is big for GPO. I said, look around for the the marine hunts must stand. Well, I want an extra day. I said, I'm sorry. You can't have an extra day. So I'm the director. And I said, I know but you know, you've got you've got you're the director, but you've got 2430 people relying on you, you know, you can't just change your mind.

Unknown Speaker  29:12  
A little white.

Joe Mendoza  29:15  
I thought this isn't this is Joe's talk, but you had to do it with him.

Unknown Speaker  29:20  
What else work? Did

Rodney Giesler  29:21  
you work on any other films with him? Or was it just looking for Britain? I don't think you've got a credit on the front of listen for Britain.

Joe Mendoza  29:27  
Oh, yes. Yes. Yeah, that was my asteroid rotates my desert or gentlemen did well, with Humphrey. Yes, well, London can take it was very successful, you see. And Craig Reynolds did a broadcast sometime later on to sort of reply to Dr. gurbles called dear doctor. And the CMI had this idea that they wanted to make a film about Clint Reynolds again. And so how Free started getting stuff for it. And, dear doctor, he's awful muddle on your doctrine t certainly you cut it J. I said, Well, you know, I haven't ever control Waterloo watch you country J. So we started making the adopter and hopefully short all sorts of funny bits and pieces for it. And in the end, it all blew it away. It just never ever really work. We tried to use the last we recorded, but not photograph the last movement of the of the kernel of the 453 G major, you know, and we wanted to try and build it around that last movement. But Humphrey shot a whole lot of stuff with but the thing that Humphrey is that he's like for coffee, nothing was ever wasted. The stuff that he shot for do doctor appeared eventually in words for battle, you know, including other shots from spring offensive, and that

Rodney Giesler  30:53  
was her battle was right at the beginning of the war, wasn't it?

Joe Mendoza  30:56  
networks for better was shot. After national gunnery. Was it really? Yes, yeah. Yes. Well, what's the battle was because you said, I really want all this detail. But the longer you take it, they want you this sequence of life being known in spite of the war. And Humphrey said to check foul, go into the middle ground and just get me shots of people that went into Piccadilly Circus with a long lens, photograph people around you. Well, it wasn't right for the film. It wasn't right for them to they get the stuff with putting it in, in a Tim called chicks people to see. And then I then I then word special was made when I was working on personal commands. So I never saw word special till it was finished. And blow me the words especially as chicks, people go around at the touch of the hand regime. You know, Humphrey was like that he never forgot anything. You see, this was? I mean, I wanted to talk about Cavalcanti a bit, but he probably didn't want to know about it. Well, Cavalcanti was the most wonderful filmmaker I've ever known in all in all my life. I mean, he's been the chap for whom I've always compared other producers, which has given me my other sort of acid attitude to producers because me Cavalcanti was the only person I regard as a terrible producer. Cavalcanti never forgot a shot. He never ever thought that's been shot for that as where it belongs, he had this fabulous free mind. He'd see a film that had gotten a mess, you know, and he'd say, we must sync up some movements to give it some shape. And everybody would think up movements to get some shape and coverage or come up with a solution. And then he'd say, I remember this particular because when we will set the front, he'd say, we need a shot to something. Do you remember Mr. Lee? He'd say to Jeff, do you remember Mr. Lee, that there was that there was all those injury shots that had a flare on but before the flare came, they were you know, and he was like that. He was marvellous guy, mouse guy. And also about care, really, which I wanted to say is that when the crown when the GPL filming, it became so significant, because it was an extremely significant unit as part of the war effort then, beyond everything. They decided it would have to have a sort of more of a government presentation. It was taken over totally by the car by the MRI, and they decided, I suppose they couldn't have a Brazilian running it. They had to have a decent respectable punishment. They got Dalrymple, who was bloody good, you know. But in the meantime, Cavalcanti had been approached by Mickey Balkan, Mickey Balkan had this idea of making humorous satirical documentaries or dealing cab when to eat intimate yellow Caesar. Remember the Mussolini? Well, there was a song vamos a Nico dlss. Kevin made a big welcome. I don't think that I don't think that has an idea that worked altogether. I mean, the film was right, but as a principal for a production company to make satiric documentaries. So Kev, then worked with Balkan as a producer. And the whole thing of what became the Ealing film is Cavalcanti written all over it. It's got that slightly sort of surrealist manner, that witty, satirical, that lightness of touch, that complete absence of shit. And that's kind of I'm convinced of that.

Rodney Giesler  34:26  
Because Didn't he direct a few? Yes.

Joe Mendoza  34:30  
He didn't lay well can wretched films he made. He also read the Nicholas Nickleby, I think, and one of the dead of night stories one of the dead of night is that he did the ventriloquist one. And also he made he made a feature called there might have been called they made me a fugitive. It was the time of immediately after the war. Remember Sally grey was possibly a Trevor Howard it was it was something like that. And then Kev went to Brazil. But I wanted to say this bit about cab because nobody's ever said it. Nobody's ever. It's never come up in conversation. I wanted to pre record this. I'm

Rodney Giesler  35:05  
so glad you did. Yes. So anyway you from listen to Britain. You mentioned Robert Haim earlier on if

Joe Mendoza  35:16  
there was ever any disasters because Bob haber was here yesterday and he hadn't done with healing PTC bought him was ended but they had to find ADT who would speak French and I was hanging with the system and I'd laid all these wonderful tracks in Hamburg come down and and recap the buddy picture without telling me all my sick maps I'm gonna hell unit. Hey, we did the full, you know, the Mad film where here's the thing completely, you know, that was the My only contact with him it was all over the place you pick up on Oh, everything. You know, because you had you had a great thing called wheels and things you didn't have these nice synchronizer jobs, you know.

Rodney Giesler  35:52  
And you mentioned Charles Halsey earlier.

Joe Mendoza  35:55  
Charles was a wonderful guy. This cut a lot about you, you want to hit buttons, okay? When the CFO got really interested in GPO after take notice, yes, he was planning to take it when it when it really all began to happen. They wanted to make a film of anti German the film about the bombing of the lightships called minute election. And they weren't going to have all these hammy University trained writer they were going to get our proper commercial experience film briefings. They got David MacDonald. So David MacDonald came in to meet and another live ship. They didn't want sort of run about boys like me and my mate. They got a proper experience film assistant director Charles Hasson Charles, you run out yet.

Rodney Giesler  36:43  
I just check the track from time to time to make sure sounds good. Okay, so

Joe Mendoza  36:48  
David MacDonald started and they weren't gonna have all these amaranthus they're gonna have professional actors. So they've shot for about a fortnight on the light ship. And then the rushes came back, and Kev absolutely blew his nut I've never seen capsure angry. They were absolutely hopeless because they will act as they look like they've never been a boat on a boat of yours in a terrible disastrous kavas furious who knows that? David MacDonald was brought back and cam said you know, I didn't want CAD said go I never never heard anything. But obviously he what he said was, Look, you've got to get real people just forget all about these bloody actors. We get one chapter in the shop, which is a chap written guys said to dirty bastards on movie, he was a professional actor and he shot and so that's that's what happened and the cha cha stayed and saw it through. David McDonald left Charles finished it largely under the instruction from McAllister Who said I want to shutter this get me a close up of that you know, because it meant brought it to life tremendously by you know, get out of college because David MacDonald didn't know how to shoot the documentary didn't know i mean he was a nice guy David windows I mean all that stuff you but I mean, if you've been trained in the feature studio you know using your tracking in treasure hunting to to shorten cut close up became less doctrinaire, but not have these funny little Penny clothes out to keep the story moving. You know what they do now? Of course, but they didn't then it was terribly 30 years of filmmaking. Anyway, Charles stayed on and was given the film to direct he directed Christmas under fire to remember that Brian, it was a sort of follow up there. Harry started it and Harry largely shot Chris's under fire. But Charles did a whole lot of extra shooting for him as well. So then Charles was given a film to direct which was war and order and I was given it to him as his assistant. And it will Charles Knight is going to ever because he's mad about music and everything and an art. I mean, it was a wonderful thing for me. I was getting so agitated. I mean, Humphrey just blew my mind about literature and painting and poetry and everything. I just go on. He took give me a give me a sort of electron john, don't you know, he was Humphrey. I got him very well, actually. And only he was when I was a bit bit. A bit of a gunked up boy, you know, that? He was I was a good listener, you see. And Humphrey, you'll see lapcat, he would never miss anything. We went to the topolski exhibition. And there was a wonderful positive drawing of a farmer pulling drawing two horses through to burning warehouses. And Humphrey obviously ruined that because it didn't fire started. He's a very, very great man. I'm pretty busy. great man.

Rodney Giesler  39:32  
I remember reading an essay by Lindsay Anderson at one time where he cited the foster only connect. Yes. This is how I've often looked on how progenies work. In other words, he would connect as you said earlier, a and b and make C. Yes, yes. And, you know, this technique, I think is its greatest form. For Timothy. Yes, he couldn't have that. That RTF pilots in Darfur Timothy was terrible. He didn't think he was very good. Apparently actors was he he wasn't

Joe Mendoza  40:05  
directly Of course, because he knew he couldn't heal. People found him very, very strange. What was strange, but I mean, I'm not a stranger to get on with Humphrey. And but but ordinary people couldn't say, they adored him, and they would do anything he said. I mean, that was one of the things very ordinary, unregulated people adored Humphrey, because he was real. You know, he didn't have any side. He had no casting, you know,

Rodney Giesler  40:31  
but you see the cat, the firemen and fires were started. Were fantastically handled. Yes, they were natural. Yes. Whereas this Aria pilot was an absolute dummy. Yeah. But then that's also inside the pilots head.

Joe Mendoza  40:42  
I mean, the people on the farm and they were they were firemen. Yeah, I mean, that people with that we would know sort of hang ups could get on with Humphrey people would hang out. Well scared of him. I think I think there's maybe what it was because he was such an all out person.

Rodney Giesler  40:59  
Anyhow, can we move on from

Joe Mendoza  41:00  
please do listen to Britain? Yeah,

Rodney Giesler  41:02  
I think we've got to chronologically Yeah. Then what?

Joe Mendoza  41:06  
Then I left then. Well, then I got called up for the Navy. And Humphrey was furious. You can't go in the Navy. I said, Humphrey. My country is calling me I'm going to the Navy and you're not doing. I said, we're looking at you tell him not me. So he went into the office and did a project. I can imagine him doing it. But I was hopeless about Joey leaving my I got a year's deferment, which was marvellous, I'm going to add two years at GPL. I was so terribly lucky, terribly lucky. And then when I left, I went to the Navy. I'd volunteer for three hours. And then while I was starting my course, first course, the Navy decided they were going to they don't realise they had a film section European terrorism. Does that ring a bell with you? Or Penn Tennyson got bumped off, he died. And they decided that I think Penn Tennyson had rather made it sort of a little private show of his own. I think once he died, they said, Well, what do you do about this filming that we've got? They decided they would expand it and they did not lock and abuzz when Ron is in a structure able to structure and run the Navy to collect all together. All the people have been in the movies. So my commanding officer, I was doing my training for the feature on CW candidacy. He said, You were in the film business venture. I said, Yes, I was. I was a film editor. He said, Well, you've got to go down to Portsmouth and see this thing. And I thought, well, you know, I've done all my training, I was a completely I become completely Navy eyes. You know, I've been naval discipline and everything. And I've made up my mind, I wasn't gonna be a filmmaker. I was gonna be a sailor, you know. So anyway, I went down there, and I saw the commander. And he said, What did you do? I thought I was a film editor. So which I wasn't but I wasn't going to say I was an assistant director, because I was meant to be a film editor. So I said, I was a film editor. Oh, oh, we weren't one of the say took her into the cutting room. Was Todd how there were nine films to be cut. Where was the cutting room in Tipton importance. Let's undo that whole scene. Well, of course, once I started fairly smelling films, I meant again, I was a gunner. I was I was a gunner. So I didn't I didn't say no, I want to stand. And then I had a whole four years in the Navy, working in cutting arms. You

Rodney Giesler  43:20  
never went to see. Nope. I ever went to see you wearing your uniform square.

Joe Mendoza  43:28  
Yeah, I've got I've got I've got we were called Sydney operators. They didn't have any. They didn't have a sort of anything filmed. I became a leading hand and leading to the operator and visible senior hand in the country when we had a sort of ran officer who was running the kind of his little Wilkinson. Does that name ring a bell with you. Now

Rodney Giesler  43:44  
short, Justin?

Joe Mendoza  43:46  
Yeah.

Rodney Giesler  43:48  
This is all done in Portsmouth?

Joe Mendoza  43:49  
Yes, yes, we used we will station on Wade Island, which is the most passive place in the league where the US had done at the double. And we used to march from Portsmouth from Ireland to the studio every morning, if there's something

Rodney Giesler  44:05  
I'll stop you there, Joe.

Joe Mendoza  0:04  
So I'm afraid as me when I was working in the cutting room in the Navy, there was another chap. A very nice that he was gay and very interesting guy. But he's too complicated again, too much button. But after me there he said he was called Tony scheme and he joined scheme. Tony said to me, You know, I've always wanted to write films, but I'm too lazy. He said, we're going to write films together. I said, but Tony, I'm an idiot. I'm not right.

Unknown Speaker  0:34  
He said, Oh, you're a writer,

Joe Mendoza  0:35  
you're a writer. So I said, Oh, yes. So we had this key. It was quite ridiculous. But then when you know, when you're 19, or 20, you do crazy things. The tough part about being a 20s wage dropping list of five things that we'd like to write films about films, thicker pictures. And so we started, and Tony said, when the war's over, he said, you'll either be a Sydney box by Oberyn, Alexander quarter boy, this is in the 40s. He said, everything that we write are going to send a Sydney box. So we did, we wrote, we work with network feature scripts. And we sent in to Sydney, you know, the first to one knowledge, and the third one came back later. Very interesting. Please keep sending here, Miriam with these two funny sales important sending the scripts I really don't know. But we wrote all the time. We wrote scripts all the time, in about one a month usually and sent sent them off to Sydney. And towards the end of the war. We had we had written one of the things I want to do is a film of Hedda gobbler. So we wrote a script of Hedda gobbler, and we sent it to Sydney. He said to me, I'm looking for somebody's friend, Todd, this seems extremely likely, as soon as you get out of the Navy, come and see me. So we did. We went to see Sydney. He, we started making a film, we started writing a film for Sydney. Without a subject, then Sydney, enter the Rank Organisation. And Sydney took us in with him. We became eventually, after longer part of the funny things starfighters we were starfighters at the bush for two years working for Sydney, which was basically marvellous within the big feature studio. We everything we want. We used to got to the type who pull the two women around the time who were wonderful gossips, you've picked up all the journalists huge studio for two years. When the end there was probably don't remember about the 75% tax and the dollar business but

Unknown Speaker  2:39  
it

Joe Mendoza  2:41  
collapsed inside of itself. Again, no writer contracts renewed. So I was out to work. And then communitarian Bishop? Well, Terry was very good film, right. He worked. He was working in the Navy, I met him. And, you know, we've been very friendly. He used to sleep under my cutting on bench when the commander was looking for. He was an officer. He said, are doing a film about the Old Vic greenpark? No, I know, you're really arised job, would you come along and be my assistant? So I said, Oh, yes, I'll do that. I was terrible to work the mortgage in two lovely children. So I went to join the guild report. The The 47 was a fortune for the Old Vic film collapsed, you see. But I was then put on another film. As an assistant director, and I thought, Christ This is a big studio job here. You've never been an assistant, the studio before I looked at the script. It got 11 sets and the cost of 18. And it was set in two periods, similar chance to Victorian times. So I thought well, alright. If they think I can do it, I think I can do it. I taken care when I left the bush to take a whole lot of stuff with me. There were artists breakdowns, sheduled, shooting schedule, sexual breakdown, scheduled wardrobe plots and everything. And I look around the guild and I thought what is a pretty coming out for they could do with a really good assistant. So I thought, Okay, I'm going to be the best assistant they've ever had. So I did, I did the whole thing completely professionally, the director who is darling called Hara Purcell. He has nothing to do with this or make any sense at all. But everything was all a bit under the arminda. And he'd never seen anything like this before. And so from my experiences Hunger Games, I said, Look, how old are you the sort of trick to that tells me what to do? Or am I the sort of a system that tells you what to do? I said, because this is a very complicated film. We're in the we're in the studio for 10 weeks. And we've got to make it we can't waste time. Oh, will you work it out? You just tell me what to do. And I'll do it you know, so I don't marry her. So I did. I did this lady's wardrobe plots, the set changes and everything. I got it really me I didn't have any I didn't have a runner. It was done. Meet enemy, we did this film, and it was quite good. The classic thing happened the last week of the shooting, the director's gastric ulcer burst. And on his sick bed, he said, they will say what's going to happen? This is a very big budget film for the guild. And it was very important that the big scene with a really big scene in this film, he said, Well, let Joe finish it. He's the only one that really I've been doing what he said for six weeks, it's all worked out. Let Joe finish it. So I finished it wasn't very difficult. I thought they were directing the film really good. And you'll go back to being a writer, please go. I was always trying to be a writer, you see. So they said, All right, Joe, the next film we get no, you're getting directing break, they made me a director at the guild. And for the first four or five films I made, I thought God, someone's gonna find out. I'm really a writer, I'm not really a director at all. And then I had to film to meet, which was absolutely impossible. And I made it and I thought, well, Joe, if you can make that then you are director and I'll stop being worrying about it. And that I'll just tell you this, because that's as a sort of tremendous trigger, you know, the whole change in my life and everything. And then I worked at the Guild, we had this wonderful system of time logs where you had to put every hour of your eight hour day against a production number. And, or general, if you weren't working. And you see I could write and I could read and I can edit and the guild used me and all these faculties. And one day, nobody was competing was the jewel was an offer. Because I was offered a film. I wrote a film about Hogarth, which I sent a quarter and Alexander quarter saw me and said he'd like to make this film. I asked for six weeks leave of absence from the guild to make it and they wouldn't get it. They said, Oh, Joe, you're making really good film will lose you. So there's if you want to leave, you've got to go. Come come back. Well, I mean, I couldn't do that. You know, I just couldn't do it. I couldn't afford to be a freelance. You know,

Rodney Giesler  7:00  
could you take a gamble on the fact that no would go ahead or not?

Joe Mendoza  7:04  
No, because, you mean I was still quite young. I was still paying a mortgage. I've got two children. My wife didn't grow. Who was it, which was a component companies at the guild at that time? It was greencore. I worked for greenpark it was Verity films. Right? hadn't joined. Ronnie, Ronnie, Ronnie Riley was Verity. And then I think Verity films was only one of the I think oh, no, Verity hives. BSE hived off. And all sorts of funny people that build skill back and everything. But I mean, I find myself sniffing around all the dirt, all the producers that do for work, because I thought if I put my time down to General, I've had it in a while anyway, I couldn't do the porphyrins. I stayed with a guild. And then after, after a long time, there was a big sort of carve up at the guild. And I got the sap. And my wife said to me, you know, you better go freelance. I said, what, how can I go freelance. I said, I've got to get a regular job. She said, we're actually looking. I look see your time wrong. She said you put your times down to seven pictures in the same week. She said you get one salary for seven pictures, why the hell should you get seven salaries or seven pictures? So I did so I left and I became a freelance. I was only at work for four hours.

Yes, the first two when I got to beta clock, and at noon, the phone rang for over the cutting editing job. And I've been a freelance ever since.

I mean, I've always had a little store by being being a freelance that I did you ever wanted to belong, I never really belong to show you see, I used to sort of drift on somebody else and so on.

Rodney Giesler  8:44  
And I mean, since 48, was 48 years ago,

Joe Mendoza  8:49  
unless you're 55 or 50. I work sort of on and off between 56 and 59 worldwide. I made some very interesting films that worldwide and but they didn't like the worldwide I mean, I wouldn't join the Jimmy Carr admiration society that was the thing. You know, give me 100 Give me what he liked to be admired. And he wasn't I did identify people that drink a lot and we'll have to find the little men that feel self important. I mean, I never was never rude to my time at worldwide

Rodney Giesler  9:20  
I found it a very unfriendly company to work for.

Joe Mendoza  9:24  
But that's well i think i think that's Yes, I did.

Rodney Giesler  9:28  
You either at mad I mean, I know people who've got a great admiration for Jimmy Carr as a producer. Yeah, but when he produced me he had his alcoholic trouble and I got no help out Yeah,

Joe Mendoza  9:39  
no, I know I worked with him lady days had done and it wasn't because I knew him Yeah, very nice man but after ineffectual you know I mean, I guess you to take my films over from handle.

Rodney Giesler  9:52  
But let's let's go back. Yeah, sure. Is there anything more about the Navy Film Unit you can tell me I mean any other people there who Went on?

Joe Mendoza  10:02  
Yes. Well, the trouble with the naval filming was that there was a terrible war between the feature people and the documentary people. The war was largely red LED by Gordon die, I think is one of our sales. Well, it's not I mean, what are you going to publish it? Well, the war was largely read by Gordon dines of the lean there was an Elan contingent in there you know, who looked down on everybody within documentary It

Rodney Giesler  10:26  
was a camera.

Joe Mendoza  10:28  
Yes, Gordon man's candidate had a marvellous camera and also bash basin Paul vsam, who was account manager and he was he was Gordon system became a feature can men Bob Thompson operator your nipple comes in HR Thompson. Dinner Peck pedi cast is a darling man Draupadi Cassius. forefoot to Brandeis is good to deal with petty laughter Daddy, I cut films are Paddy and he's pletely impractical. Don't touch it. It runs 120 feet. Don't take a frame out of it, Joe. And I said, Petey, your film last 10

minutes. The whole film barely last 10 minutes. What do you want me to cut out?

Isn't that a nice guy Paddy's? We don't know. W Leslie script writer. You know. We wouldn't know your hustle, Crystal hustle brother. He was an art director can hardly hardly draw. I can hardly I can hardly wait was a fabulous guy around the animation. But I was very one a wonderful man. Very sweet man. We had this huge animate 92 people and there was so much talent. There was so much talent in that film section where it was never used. never used.

Rodney Giesler  11:48  
But it went on to develop afterwards. I mean, at least it got you all together.

Joe Mendoza  11:53  
Yeah, but the point is that we had this terrible Oh, come to the bus. Commander Phillips.

Unknown Speaker  12:01  
Commander,

Joe Mendoza  12:01  
Commander Phillips Phillips Phillips Yes. And, you know, he just didn't know how to handle anybody. You know, I mean, we were all the Navy and everything you never even sell, you know, I mean, I'd been brought up. And if you're making it, the most important thing in the whole life was making a movie, you know, I'd be laying tracks and somebody say there's an animal coming around. Scrub the floor. So I just grabbed the floor. And then the hammer would come around, and I was the best spoken. I was the best spoken Unfortunately, the ones that I had to deal with for the talking to the study of most zunar or presentation staff in there. And that was it. I mean, I used to ask permission to work late because you know, you've got to dabbing dead, you know, you lay the tracks, I wish I could Six, five. So I said, well, you have to, you know, we won't be able to get we've booked the theatre for dubbing tomorrow morning at 11 or whatever it is. or cancer just cancelled? Well, I mean, you'd be brought up like I'd been brought up that was actually heresy to you know, so that you you knew very well, or whatever you were doing was not in the least importance. And you know, when you're quite young, you can't say it doesn't matter. I got news to get in terrible states about it all. got very rundown a little because I was very bitterly unhappy. That that's that sort of attitude. I mean, I refuse promotion is the end of the war. They wanted me to be a petty officer, because of my time. And I said, am I am I allowed to refuse promotion, sir? More if it was? Because to me, what one review version I said will upset if I become a petty officer, you know, my salary will go up. But I've got a war service grant from my mother, I'm supporting my mother. So I won't be financially better off. I said, I still do exactly the same job, won't I? Of course, it will be it will be appear. So I said yes. But no justice, just I just getting more trouser was in trouble for these night wearing grey socks in there. And I said, Well, you know, I will not be financially better off, I don't think I will be personally better off. I'd rather not be a petty Petty Officer, I'd rather stay as a leading hand. What was never happened before. I said what I know, sir. But you know, that's, that's how I feel about it. If I have the choice, I'd like to exercise it. Do I have the choice just to have the choice. So I said I'd like to exercise a deployment. So you can be polite. But you have to be you know, you can't, you can't push yourself push your weight around. But it was a terrible one. It wasn't the way it wasn't a waste of time. Because I mean, I learned an awful lot about writing movies, you know. And I mean, all through that time, it was my that was my sub jump into features and so on.

Rodney Giesler  14:42  
If you'd left they would have put you on a ship and sent you out on a convoy or something.

Joe Mendoza  14:47  
But I couldn't leave the Navy anyway. I mean, you can't if they give you a job to do, you would do it. It'd be the point. They could have stopped any moment sent me on the ship. I mean, I was enable rating of somebody enable discipline and I'd be drafted to wherever I wanted to roughly do I wasn't protected in the sense of word.

Rodney Giesler  15:06  
Can we move on now to the area that I know? Well, I mean, yes, you will. You don't remember but you are one of the first people I met when I joined the film industry Really? Well, Donald Alexander gave me a job as a cohort. assistant at Marshall. Yeah. And we had a cutting room at Cardin's. Yes. And the winter of 55 you're cutting a film there for British transport films. Was that cutting? And I remember that. Yeah. He came along and said Meet Joe. Yeah, he's a freelance. He's doing this film for British transport.

Joe Mendoza  15:38  
As in the burns film,

Rodney Giesler  15:40  
that was probably Yeah, we all used to go over the road for awards and a cup of char apps. Now this lubricious there's a cafe over the road opposite, Mr. Jones. Yeah. We used to have a char and Ward's over the road. Yeah. Anyhow, Cardin's Joomla. donor very long. I don't know what they're doing now is a long time ago. But that was 55. Yeah. This was when I was coming into the industry. Yes. This is when film sponsored film was probably getting at its best you have Yeah, still had shell doing good. Yeah. Yeah. transport. Yes. And then, of course, the guild and everyone. And you had this for actually showing reasonable films every year. Before this terrible video mess. Yeah, it all got enveloped in. Can you lead me? And of course we the listeners to this tape, through your time as a freelance if, in the post GPO days?

Unknown Speaker  16:39  
Yes.

Unknown Speaker  16:41  
Well,

Joe Mendoza  16:45  
I worked at worldwide while I was working at worldwide, a friend of mine was working on the film, and neither do much Curtis, Cameron. Martin was working on the film for Trinity College in Ireland. And he had gotten a terrible mess because the two people who were making it didn't know anything about it. And the they were the darling boffins at Trinity. And he and they said, they said to Martin, no, we don't seem to be getting anywhere. What do you think we ought to do? So Michael said, well, quite frankly, the two people who got making this film didn't really know one end from the other. So what do you think if you use it? Well, I think Martin said, I think you should stop production and have a have a think, you know, so they did this. And then they stopped production. And they said to Mike, what do you think we ought to do? So Martin said, Well, I think you ought to get somebody to have a long to have a look at all the material we've shot and give you an opinion on it. So they said, what do you do anybody? Is Martin said, Well, I know German does, because what you imagine are be mates for years and years and years. We were in the Navy together, Martin. And so I went along this was this is 1958. I had to jump that far. So I went over to Dublin, and I saw this material. And they said, What do you think I said, Well, I think you've got four minutes here. of all this stuff. You've got four years ago, four minutes of it. And I said, you know, really, if you want to make a film, you know, to get money for a new library extension, you've got to show a film of at least 20, if not 30 minutes to make it worthwhile. I said, quite frankly, I think what you ought to do really is just to forget the whole thing I said, because it's going to cost you so much more money than what has been to make a movie around these four minutes. And then unfortunately, good minutes anyway. So they said, Well, you know, we can't do this, there's been too much publicity about it. When we lose so much face, we must make a film. So I was working at worldwide on the film to the cGb. And I said, Well, you know, I'm fine. I can't help you. Well, would you make it? I said, Well, I can't, I won't be free to next January. They said, Well, if we wait till next January, we will make it. So I said, Well, yes, I suppose for money, you know. And that's how I became I became a film producer. I went over to Ireland, and I made this film poem about the college, a new one and awarded a call come in and anything and when in order to cork, you know, we had a camera operator working with the school, Vincent Cochran, who actually was a freelance cameraman himself, you know. And when he saw me when the film was hollow, he said, use it. I've never ever worked with a director before. He said, I didn't really know what directors do. He said, You seem to have the whole film in your head and you know what you want? I said, Well, that's what you do. When your director Vincent really, you know, he said, Well, if I can get the film line that would you come and direct it for me? I said, Well, if I'm praying for the miners, right, yes. So in the end, I made a film for the peat board in Ireland, with Vincent as producer. And then later on, I made another film in Ireland, for so called. Leading the way about five farmers in different parts of Iowa did loving agriculture. That one sort of gone with Berlin.

So that's how I became a producer. Really. It's Very hard to say what films are made on I haven't made really.

Rodney Giesler  20:05  
Looking back in those days, the different people you work for, you know, including some of the people I've mentioned, like, on the show and so on. What films gave you particular satisfaction? And what are your memories? Earlier sponsors? You

Joe Mendoza  20:18  
work? Yes, friends? Yes. Okay. Yes, I made a film for realist jack homes as a producer, do jack homes. They wanted, they wanted to make a film to accompany report called traffic in towns. And they had me up for a briefing session for a script. And they told me what they wanted. And what they wanted was a whole lot of diagrams, you see. And I said, Well, look, you know, I don't know whether you've set your heart on these diagrams there. But look, if you really want to put this idea over, you won't do it with diagrams. I said, it's about traffic. It's about the relationship of people in traffic is relationships with life of people in towns, I said, You've got to make a film about the life of people in towns in relation to traffic. Not a lot of diagrams. You know, what I did? I did just like to sell stores to Sydney boxes, see? Well, there's a woman who was in charge of CSI. She was Francis COVID. process, Kevin was so impressed by all this. She said, Well, Germans make it and we must do what? Anyway, we made having a lovely picture. I thought I got James Cameron within it, because I said, you know, we've got to have a, we've got to have a, you can't do it with voiceover. It's too complex. You've got to have got to have a man talking to the audience about what it's all about. So we've got James Cameron. And I said, well, James, right it, you know, but James sort of say, Well, look, what do you mind if I use what you've written? I said, Well, no, God is you're like this. It's all there. You know, if that's what you want to say. I said, If not, you know, and James and James Cameron, I worked on a few films with him. And it's a very good picture.

Rodney Giesler  21:47  
And of course, you have Colin Buchanan.

Joe Mendoza  21:48  
Yeah. Yes. Oh, you know about a do and when it's done.

Rodney Giesler  21:51  
Well, I was making a film in Africa for jack at the same time, Gordon daddy when he learned Oh, of course.

Unknown Speaker  21:56  
Yes. Yes. I

Rodney Giesler  21:56  
seen. In fact, I think we probably met at Jackie's to have parties I've been reading.

Joe Mendoza  22:00  
Yes, that's right.

Rodney Giesler  22:02  
And you will probably I know. Yes. Jim camera was because I had long chat with Yes.

Joe Mendoza  22:06  
Oh, he's a sweet movie. Our paths crossed. Definitely. class. I know. Is it when I was at ranks, I tried. I said, You know, I still want to go movies, which I was very impressed with. And I can't remember who it was now. But I was. And I said, Look, you know, I've seen a hell of a nice picture me my Rodriguez there. We ought to have him out and see if, if we could ever use him. But they were funny. It was. Yeah. Ian's funny guy.

Rodney Giesler  22:33  
I've worked with he did call me him. He did call me. He offered me two pictures. And unfortunately, at that time, I didn't know you were the kind.

Joe Mendoza  22:40  
Yes, I seen them. Well, I was always nagging them. Because I said, Look, I'm working for you at ranks here. I did a three year contract with ranks, you see. And I said, Look, you know, you must get another director. I said, you know, people may not like me, I may not like people. I said, you can't build a better unit round one guy, you're crazy. If you do, you must get another director in. You know,

Rodney Giesler  22:59  
so I never knew. But unfortunately, I had to turn both those down. So I gave me some money to make a short feature, which I did that I wanted to get into features. And so I made this short for you here, hopefully as a sort of hat white hat through the door. Yeah. And we actually got our money back on it. But that's why I didn't take up.

Joe Mendoza  23:16  
No, I didn't I didn't when I saw I saw a film of yours. And I'm also being immortalised. It really is good. Yes, that's amazing. I didn't know that. You were What about shell Did you during the show? Well, what happened was

I was a great friend of Derek Armstrong's we met. I met Derek when he was cutting films of the Guild, you know, we've been in touch because we're both mad about music and everything. And then one day, he said to me, you know, having to ever work for Shell I said, Well, no, I said it would be it's all a bit high tone for me. I said, You know, I, I do commercials. And you know, I'm I do. I didn't deal with the nitty gritty. You know, Derek, I don't make high class movies. don't regard myself as a high class, maybe make you know, I'm a worker. I make films for audiences, you know, in sometimes in spite of producers, and sometimes with them. I said, I don't think really I'm a shell sort of man said, Oh, well, I think you ought to go and see Dora. So I said, Oh, hell Alright. Well, so I wrote to Dora, and she said, we'll bring along a couple of films. So I'm not sure enormous CinemaScope film I made for ranks for Expo 67. And I brought along a very nice little 16 mil film I made for Christian aid about what it was made in in Israel in India and my staff in so so we had to run out to the big theatre for the cinemas go down to 60 minutes. And they were offered me some domain to see and I realised that what else she offered me at home to me because I obviously could cope with things and cope with people because they had a film within shelter make which they wanted the unit to me, but the man was making it was such an absolute cunt, and such a dreadful man. I've got of everybody's nose. They all hated him. Nobody wanted to have anything to do them, because you can't vary with once you're within your shell, it's very difficult to deal with Shell people what you mean, but somebody from outside can. So I bought it. I didn't know, I came in on this thing, you know. And the first day he said to me, we've got all the research arranged for the library. I said, What was about he said, Well, there are 35 books update, you'll better read them before we start. I said, Well, I can't make films like that. I said, I talked to people and find out what people want what they're trying to say, Oh, we've got to make people who are as well. If you get to make you can't make people realise anything unless you convince them first. Yeah. That's how we started with a terribly overbearing man. It was an awful form terribly boring. Why time is finished. But we did make it because everybody shows that it couldn't be made. And so then door said, Oh, well, you made it and God is out of our way. We'll give you another film since we can. So then I made waiting on weather for them. There's a nice full meeting with and I was very pleased with that.

Rodney Giesler  25:58  
And that was turning up platforms in the last few years. It's nice picture waiting, and whether

Joe Mendoza  26:04  
because I mean, I didn't direct it. I had a wonderful cameraman director who let me let me mortalized him. Ron Granville was the cameraman director was looking at life. And I was making a film for the post office for Tony barrier. And Tony barrier had known run through ranks. And Ron was the camera on it. And we got on very well. My wife had just died. And I just moved house. And Ron said to me, did anybody help you move in? I said, No. He said, What about your children? I said, Well, they weren't interested. I was only Oh, well, you're not on your own anymore. Joe, he said, and from that moment, Ron looked after me, you know. And he had a mom was coming in. He's the only man I've ever known from, you could say, get me four minutes of this. I don't want two minutes. I don't want eight minutes. I want four good minutes of this. And he could don't do it. This wonderful camera man director. Because he had wonderful eyes. I mean, he knew he was gonna cut he couldn't cut the film. But he knew what made movies. And so when we had this, waiting on whether film to make a shell, there was any room for two people in the in the thing. So I said to door look, you can't get a director on a film like this. You got to get a director camera man. So she said, Well, Who should we as I said, Look, why don't I have worked together are worked through RON and RON will work through me. And that's exactly what we did. because they'd never ever made a film and show on the North Sea that didn't cost hundreds of 1000s of pounds. And she said, Well, I don't think we should make a film. I said, Look, let's let them let's make a film. Let's see what happens. I said, Let's send Ron away on one sortie, see what he gets. Let him just use his eyes in his ears and let her know. I briefed Him we will talk we went out Aberdeen and we talked to all the people. And I worked out with Ron certain locked off camera positions on the boat was too dangerous to put a check there. You know what I mean? And I also worked out we worked out together sort of a liking scheme for should you bring extra lighting up at night and things. And so we did that wrong went out with one sortie for two and two weeks or two came out with this lovely stuff, you know. And then gradually we did that assaulted time, we had an editor on it. She gave the run or the close out the extra bits and things you needed to make sense out of what he shot. And the film was gradually built up in that way. And that was wrong. Beautifully done. Wonderful shooting. But as you can see, you can make a man if make sense. Got the right man.

Rodney Giesler  28:33  
And also, I think we're talking about shell you could make films, provided you have the time to do it. And certainly in my time in show, which was in the 60s here. They didn't seem to mind what money they spent as long as they got the answer, right. Yes, this is quite important. In fact, they often went too far. Yeah, I would say surely that model shots. Fine. Do we have to do it again? Yes. Yes. You know, knowing their studio I'd ever worked in their base. Yes, Yes, I have. Yeah, it was purgatory. I mean, you've spent weeks down there. Beautiful summer and you've come up for breath on Southbank. And then go back again. Yeah, yeah. And that's what show we're good at now. No more unfortunately. Yeah. No more.

Joe Mendoza  29:10  
Well, the the thing I liked about show so much was that if they gave you the job, they gave you the job. They trusted you. Because you I knew they wouldn't know me and they knew I wouldn't give it to them. And if I said it could be done, then it could be done. And if I did, it couldn't be on an equal manner. I mean, you knew where you were with them. I mean, I enjoyed I enjoyed working with Rob, but I didn't work with I mean, I worked with 10 years and 11 years on and off between 74 and 85. But I didn't work all the time. But Shall I make a full show? Make another one and comments on?

Rodney Giesler  29:43  
You are going you're mentioning just now this this show, officiant will teach you to read all those books. We've all got sponsor stories. I wonder if you could record a few sponsors who are actually paying for the film and want it made their way out. cuckoo land they seem to live in. Yes. How? Sometimes they destroyed a film. Sometimes they were one wrong. Have you any other particular?

Joe Mendoza  30:07  
Yes. So mine I did, I did a film for a very famous computer film English computer film, which I won't mention, because the man whom I made the film is a great personal friend of mine, but he's a very heavy man. And he just really were animated. And he didn't like him. And he didn't like Ray. He said, You're obviously the only person with any intelligence in this space, Joe. I said, Well, look, you're prejudiced. Because you know me. I said, you know, you've got to give them a chance. They're doing they're they're doing they're they're making a film per unit. And he just bamboozled and bothered everybody. And in the end, it was the most the second most boring film I've ever made. Because you know, he wouldn't listen. He wouldn't listen to anybody.

Rodney Giesler  30:52  
Other clients, I can kind of see I've got a pretty notorious for this, I find. I've done a number of films in the COI, albeit through a company but often I've had to sit and face some direct.

Joe Mendoza  31:03  
Well, I, on the few occasions I worked through I've always been heavy. I've always taken initiative. I've never I never let them have it.

Unknown Speaker  31:11  
Because,

Joe Mendoza  31:12  
but I can't I can't be terribly arrogant if necessary. You know? I mean, I never rude but I'm always firm.

Rodney Giesler  31:20  
Did you get a reputation for being quote, difficult?

Joe Mendoza  31:23  
Yes, very probably difficult but desirable. If anybody said to me, were you famous in the film is famous for not being out.

Which is a complete lie, because the whole thing is a complete shambles. Isn't it? mean? Should I tell you if I may say

this, again, a bit of personal but it's quite relevant for some but this hold on a very curious and amusing circumstances to do with Ireland ended up with my buying a house in Cary for 625 pounds. You see, work in the film business, I was not the only I was one of the very few people anybody knew who paid the mortgage on their house and had another half. Everybody used to think I was stinking rich, didn't need the money. Didn't need the work. So I could afford. I just only regretted it. I mean, I'm so naive. I'm so naive. I didn't realise this. But this, in fact, is what happened. So I used to have a terribly authentic librium of me work. And the film business is so gullible. You know, as soon as they think money is around, they think somebody is marvellous, you know, this is quite spurious. But I mean, this, this, this, this, I found, is it. I'm sure this was it. Because I mean, all my producers used to have holidays in my house, which isn't very nice for house, you know, but I mean, I didn't buy it from appears I bought it from my family. But I mean, looking at sort of looking back on it, I realised that people thought and this thing that and if you don't need money, people will offer it to you. I mean, I never made much money. I mean, I didn't have difficulty in getting paid. All Yes, yes, I have terrible job with ABB. I did a documentary for them about the Navy at Dartmouth, you know. And they sent me on vacation. They still hadn't paid me for the script. Oh, excuse

me, there's something Oh. But couple getting money. I did. I didn't write the song for the Navy. You see.

And I did all research. I did the script. And I waited to be paid. I never got the script fee. And then I was told I was going on vacation to shoot it. I said, Well, I can't go until I get my money for the script. Oh, y'all get it? All right. I said, Look, you know, I'm not going to I get the money for the script. So they said, well, we'll, we'll send it to and and you know, it'll arrive, you say? So I said, Well, look, don't enter me since my wife. I said, when I get to the location of telephone, my wife, if she hasn't got the money, I'm coming back. We can't do that. I said I can and I will. So random. My wife, she got the money. Half of them for me. For the script, this was no fee for the directing yet, you know. So after two weeks, there was still no money coming in. And I did exactly the same thing. I said, Look, you know, if I don't get my wife doesn't get the money. I said, Look, she's got to eat. You know, you've got to send her money. I said, if you don't send her the money, I'm coming back

Unknown Speaker  34:23  
with the crew, with the crew.

Joe Mendoza  34:26  
So they did get the money in there. But I had to do that. I had to do that. And that was the funny company BP.

Rodney Giesler  34:33  
I asked you that question because I've had exactly the same

Joe Mendoza  34:35  
Yes, yes. But then you've just you've just got to be heavy with people. There's no single I'm sure you're doing your best because they probably were down. I mean, not always warned about the company because the assistant I had David Williams Jr. David rooms. Not very nice guy, David. I talked David into being a director actually. Yes, because we were he was my assistant on the post office on paternity barrier. Attorney. wanted to make a film for the Red Cross and wanted me to make it and I said, I can't tell you. I've got too much to do. Let David do it. He's done a good. So David got directing it, which Yeah, that's it. That's a funny company BP. There was a I was another film I was making film one, just your training and there was something very funny about it. There was all sorts of things. We couldn't tell the CSI. And I said, Look, you know, I don't know what's going on. But I don't really want to know, I look after john. And then you're blue out. In the end, we finished the film. But then the new producer, they got interactive, tried to tell the survey was all my responsibility will burn up. So I got caught around about that too. underhand and unpleasant. The original producer, he was sort of Mason's a little worn by Mason's abp. And he got sort of promoted sideways. But it was a very, it was a very funny business. I never worked for the CEO again after that. I'm sure that was why I didn't need to. But I mean, I'm sure that was what it was all about.

Rodney Giesler  36:06  
I've come across a number of Masonic connections in the industry. Yes.

Joe Mendoza  36:09  
Well, there's only three ways to be a successful filmmaker. you've either got to be a communist or to be a gay or to be a Mason. I mean, it's unfortunately, I wasn't any of them. Really. I very you didn't join me. So my father used to be amazing, but I never really thought

Rodney Giesler  36:29  
I didn't think Jews are allowed to be masons. Oh, yes.

Joe Mendoza  36:32  
Oh, yes, they are a lot of it's quite a big thing for Jewish people. as Catholics, yes. There's quite a big thing with Jews, the Jews and the Masons have quite a lot to do with it Really?

Well, I didn't know what else to tell you. The merchant seaman jack was directing it. We had the set on Rockers, you know. And I mean, I was completely abused by the whole thing. I never really been in the studio before you know. And cat was tremendously kind to me always. And I mean, he made jokes about me and my virginity and everything. But he was but he never made you feel small you know he was you will never see he was never thought a heavy man although he's a positive but I wish remember that because you know, I mean, he make a thing about saying goodnight and goodbye to everybody in the weekday shooting and earn hero and he was sort of include me, and he never do it. Last but not least, he doesn't go around the floor and I was nice, and he never would he never lost. He wasn't there. Not temperamental. He was a very slow, steady sort of guy. But he hadn't he didn't have he didn't have that incredible flair that Harry had. I mean, Harry, what Harry Wong had tremendous sort of fire and I want to emphasise, men one wants to have a telephone conversation with Cavalcanti ringing up Harry on location. And Kev said to Harry, in seven years, I have taught you to be a gentleman, but it is no good. It is no good. recreate. He said, in seven years, I have taught you to be a director, but I cannot teach you to be a gentleman. Because Kevin himself was incredibly elegant man. And he was always written very frequently had his mother, Madam, a Cavalcanti. She was a little bit like Queen Mary was sort of blue toks you know. But Harry was wonderful to have you read his book. Good. Look at the camera is a marvellous book, I think. And he never sold a second book.

Rodney Giesler  38:44  
Did you ever come across john john monk, john Goldman?

Joe Mendoza  38:49  
Well, I did. But you know, I really can't remember in what contracts I've just interviewed him in great detail. Yes. He is very sprightly. quite old. Yes. And of course, he had a lot

Rodney Giesler  39:01  
of memories of flooding.

Unknown Speaker  39:04  
of stone. vladek. Man of era. Oh, yes. Yes, of course.

Rodney Giesler  39:07  
He's among the collection that you're joining.

Joe Mendoza  39:09  
Yes. And have you did you manage to get into the john Taylor if you ever done Jade has

Rodney Giesler  39:14  
been done, but not by me. Oh icsa recorded this magnificent film show for him?

Unknown Speaker  39:19  
Yes,

Unknown Speaker  39:20  
there's a while back on in April.

Joe Mendoza  39:22  
I can't remember john. Mike. I think I must have met john monk in the war I associated with the cantina denim

Rodney Giesler  39:28  
in the water bill called Wavell. sweaty 1000.

Joe Mendoza  39:32  
That must have been I've been in the Navy when that was because, you know, I was four years. I was in the Navy. I was out of everything. What's going on? I mean, I think I came home on leave once weren't hungry. We just starting faster started. But when it was very funny, when I came back out of the Navy, I was allowed to exercise my right to see in return to my last base of work. So I came back to Chrome for eight pounds a week. eight pounds. 50 or eight pounds. 10 a week. eight pounds 10 a week. As a writer, and I wrote some commentaries for Mac, and I wrote some sort of sci fi short Hey Xander sure you're doing it. Sure. Wonderful man. We used to beat for hours but everybody in the world was laughed at it. Sure. And they were Pinewood. And as walking after those long Carlos Humphrey. Joey, what are you doing? What are you doing here? I said, I'm a writer, you were writer. I didn't go to composer Symphony then.

He was working with Dell on that. was their very close when they daland Yes. He, I think he was going to use on the secondary that is to waters or something. Because he was always talking about with the hobby day. But then, thinking of that, Mr. Bernard, I can't ever imagined hungry good. Future people. Really? Yes, he does have a nasty old town. He used to hate people with absolute passion. He was hated them. Burn miles. I never knew why he did burn the miles and he was up on the walls of the terrible Sony and he was talking about Mr. Paul ledee wrote that. Again, I never liked Paul Rosa but this is you sort of come up with a terrible hates.

Rodney Giesler  41:27  
Anyone else you remember it? GPO crime?

Joe Mendoza  41:31  
gang Jonah Jones, Ghana Jones the camera and remember him? Oh yeah, I like to Jonah. He was wonderfully sort of funny. When I flew Ben he bombed we're under the fourth bridge. There was always Jonah's wonderful lions You know? And but check fowl was a lovely cameraman very quiet when I met chick in Brazil. Working for Shell was running a sort of facilities company. But he was a lovely camera man and arena a very sweet person in that he was always very good with Humphrey he could always come go no couldn't get on with Humphrey there was no Jonah rather despised him I think the kids seem to understand Humphrey there was seem to work together terribly well. We had a we had a feature operator once on on this mute button skeets coloured that never go escaped. Very sweet guys get Kelly's on is a real thin film business person. And he did something else that happens. I'll skip through creatine. creatine skeets had me I didn't know what he had been. I said I looked it up in addiction and got a really nice set of that is 100 everybody's a creative. This skates and I turned that ski turned up once he was in the false Film Unit as a as a pilot officer. And he wasn't very good at all this being an officer business is almost beyond him really well, I think I probably talked myself out

Rodney Giesler  0:06  
Joe, you're telling me a little while back about some postwar films you made in Africa, with James Cameron and so on? That you have you found very interesting and stimulating Kenya. Tell me a bit about this.

Joe Mendoza  0:22  
Yes, I work. I've been working sort of on and off for worldwide for about three or four years.

And I've got very fed up. And so I've started looking around for other clients, you know. And I came across Michael Barton, who might known when he was we were both editors at the film Producers Guild. And he was he taken over very difficult from Ronnie right after it died. And he always had a great connection with BBC and his partner have with flying and then and they were offered to film, a see a tourist promotion for about East Africa. And the idea was Uganda borders, the Congo was a to radishes, South Africa, and Kenya and Tanganyika. And he asked me if I like to make this film and I said, Well, you're sure I've, I've never done a really extensive very foreign vacation before. I've always had weeks here. 10 days here, the other services not but he didn't worry him. And he said them while we here, there's a very interesting young camera man working at transport. David, what can you see? Well, I worked at transport. I made the burns from there. And he said, you know, would you like to use him? Well, I'd heard about David walk in that he was a rather sort of crazy creature, other good camera. And I thought, well, this is the first film we've really made abroad for a long time. I think you'd be better off with sort of summed up sort of steady. So I said, Well, yes, we'll be interesting as they be interesting to us. So it's a short film. And this is a long, quite important one. I think, quite frankly, you know, I haven't got this experience. You know, I said, I really think if you give me a care manager with somebody who's got experience of the salon, that far from movies, so they gave me juke, who was absolutely ideal. Well, I've been making hundreds of television commercials, then who knows I have all sorts of ideas about images and stuff in it. And I told what I wanted to do and Jake said even to play along and then I rewrote the script and I had these ideas that I want you to do on their head of sequence onto sort of Camp five lay in the middle on safari and and i thought was ridiculous. We can't have a thing run cat of our watch your life with a campfire owner and I thought, well, we can't get lights out. And I thought about using sound guns, but I thought well, you know, sounds right for Cosell because you can't sort of do things, group shots. So I talked to several the GQ and I said do you think we we could like it with flares up? So JC did some research for me and found these flares from some firework manufacturer that were burned for a minute. So I said, Okay, jackets flip. So we bought two dozen of these flares. And they were put in a box, you see. And Jake said to me, You can't let the people know you're taking fireworks on the plane. So I said a riot has the right. They will be called Mr. Mendoza special effects. So he

Unknown Speaker  4:06  
will thank

Joe Mendoza  4:09  
Well, thanks, Mr. majors, especially if and the other thing was I wanted to film underwater. But we didn't have any sort of snorkels and things and so I told Dee what I was after, and we invented the kind of glass tank, which is about three foot thick. But we put because of the sashes out the camera and then sort of we made a tent where the camera would sit in and it would be about 12 inches of water. You'd film it underwater as you know as if one wants to go underwater and the chap dies. Oh gee was tremendous. He was a wonderful gadgety man particular was being brought out with gadgets You know, I'm good get ready this gadget for me that was also called Mr. Mendez. So anyway, no When I got to the US to upgrade, it was all quite different for the way the chap had written and scripted it. So we went ahead, and I started shooting. And then it actually came back saying, Joe, you must shoot more. I was terrified. I was brought up on stock. I thought were really, you know, what am I supposed to do? So I said, Well, I'll shoot. So after the first few weeks shooting, we all went very well. And we were filming in Kenya, which right at the end of the MA MA, they were still sort of sorting out the Malmo in Kenya, which is very interesting, really. And high class, Africans, Kenyans, were beginning to be seen in the Nairobi pubs and clubs. You said it was also very interesting because we were filming at Christmas time. And we were filming a Christmas tree in Nairobi, or something. And then there are all these little children coming around looking, because there wasn't that they were they were Muslims, you know, and I suddenly sees firsthand My love, everybody thought, Well, of course, there are a whole lot of people in the world who Christmas doesn't mean anything. It was all very educational, really. But I suppose the most, I understand her from her. Please stop it. We're getting cramped.

Rodney Giesler  6:28  
You made films in other parts of Africa, as well as East Africa, did you?

Joe Mendoza  6:34  
Yes, I have made films. I made a film in Nigeria. For a AI. We're doing a film on new forms of telecommunication, we had a sort of sequence of a ship that ran into trouble off coast of West Africa. And you followed all the telephone messages and things. And we worked on in Port Harcourt, all around there. That was in Nigeria, the rest of the phone calls and shot in England.

Rodney Giesler  7:02  
were involved in a film with James Cameron.

Joe Mendoza  7:05  
Well, James James wrote the comments for the film on East Africa. James wrote the commentary for me. And he got us off a party line from BBC. But he talked to me an awful lot about what I'd seen and what I thought, you know, how have you actually sort of struck me as somebody who's never been in Africa before, I've never actually been that far abroad, and never been amongst so many black people in my life, you know? And, I mean, he didn't sort of put into the company what I'd say, but I think he, he took a kind of colour in the commentary from this rather sort of done sophisticated approach. And it's an extremely good commentary, really, about Africa.

But then he's a very, I've worked on quite a few or three or four films, I've worked with James and we've always got on very well.

I did a film The film traffic in towns, actually, James is actually in the film, as well as writing writing the script with me, and he just wrote, I sketch the script out, and he just followed my sketch really, he was, he was very, very generous, sort of, and Cameron in that way,

Unknown Speaker  8:14  
full of

Rodney Giesler  8:15  
insight. You're in Africa, and a very interesting time, you know, in all these countries,

Joe Mendoza  8:19  
yes. Well, of course, I didn't really realise it there. When we were in Kenya. You know, we were I can't remember quite all. But we had to have some sort of guide to this area, you know, and the man said to me, he's just been left out of prison. So I said, well, what's your knees when he was a man now? He's murdered 35 people bought hams. What is a very good guy got six years, which is cool. And he was to me, he may have murdered 35 people have been a political whatnot. But he's in education on last week. And that, again, was extremely educational, you know. And then we went to, we went to what was in Northern Rhodesia, to film you know, the soul stuff for roads tube and all that. Hot on top of paint cave paintings. And when we were there, they were having the first meetings to set speed, break up the Federation of Northern and Southern Rhodesia, you know, in the beginning of the development of independence, contracts and things going on. And then we were based in Salzburg, what was called soulsville. It's called Harare. Now, you know, and I was I was sort of followed by all of the describers reducing rednecks in there. And they said, How long have you been there for guys that have been two months? Have you had any Have you formed any opinions? So I said one, I'm not here for opinions. I'm here to make a movie where you'll have some opinions about how we've raised our so I said, Okay. So they started lecturing me about Africans and how useless they were they're so stupid, they break an anvil, you know, and, and they had ridiculous the whole idea of having self government they weren't capable and went on and on and on. And I am Do you see when we were in Kenya, we went on the safaris, but we had two trucks, one with the camera gear and the one with us and it to land rovers. And we had a couple of black, you know, rain rangeman, you know, employees. And, you know, one that one never thought of them as being black people. They were no earned. And Morris, you know, you were then they were all together, you know, and you knew very well, that once the land river break down, you know, right in the middle of nowhere, and also in the Badlands, you know? Well, I mean, no, got out and sort of took a bit skewed a bit here is within it was a white again, you know, I thought I already forgot somebody knows how to do these things, you know. So I saw I had no opinions about blacks. But when these people release you've got at me, you know about it, or they will say thing about it. Now, I often how stupid they were, how useless they were. I thought well, you know, that's just one man's opinion. You know, he just, he only knows round here from his own point of view. And I never forgot that. Because many, many years later, I made a film in Northern Ireland, you see. And that was given exactly the same spiel about Catholics and nationalists are the Ulsterman. And I thought, my goodness, you've heard all this before. And that really, I found that very shattering in I mean, when people said, I've been to Northern Ireland, they said, Oh, you're frightened of the bombs. Is it no more finding the aftermath Really? Say that respect. The African thing was a great education.

Rodney Giesler  11:36  
Did you go to South Africa at all? Yes, we

Joe Mendoza  11:38  
went to Johannesburg. Again, that was an awful experience. Because everybody I mean, you've been with all these nice, friendly black people in Kenya, and all sorts of people. And then when you went to South Africa, they were called you master all the time. You know, and they were and they were sort of invisible. It was, it was really horrible. Really, absolutely horrible. I was devastated. I had to leave anywhere else to leave Johannesburg, because you really felt you want to kind of totally different planets. You know, you you thought you had nothing in common with anybody, buddy. Apart from whom you actually met there, you know, you all from a different part of the world.

Rodney Giesler  12:22  
And I think you tended to be looked on with suspicion anyway. But European whites tended to be looked on with suspicion anyway. Yes. You know, if you weren't with them, you're a communist?

Joe Mendoza  12:32  
Yes, absolutely. That was that was perfectly true. I mean, I was actually in Cape Town, Cape Town with soup. We went to Cape Town to film a grid of grape harvest from Cape Town was very nice of a beautiful place. It was very nearly as beautiful as Ireland, I thought. And there we were, I was actually there, the Wheatley, Mr. McMahon and made his wind of change speech and the papers of full of accuray that everybody was storming around saying how ridiculous The British were and we weren't didn't live in a real world, you know. But sort of looking back on the film as a whole now, I mean, it was quite an answer to Jewish commercial film. But in some ways, you see, when we were doing the stuff in Northern Rhodesia, you know, we had a sort of agricultural college thing, you know, and the whole thing was a multi, multi sorry, that Northern Rhodesia, sorry, that Southern Rhodesia, but one, Southern Rhodesia was was the first multiracial African states you see, that was the that was the party line, you know. And so I sort of got up, they'll be sort of students, you know, and I sort of mix to have all the black people and the white people here. And all my sort of advisors around me, were horrified. They said, but they don't mix like this. I said, Yes, but but you're saying they do mix like this, you know, what do you want me to put in the film, a woman, I suppose you better hit the mix, you know, it was it was the fact that everybody seemed to be having some kind of pretence. There was a which I thought very conscious living in as far as I can see in a kind of very unreal world. Because the other thing that struck me so much about Africa was that we went to him. So one thing that struck me about Africa was because this was the end of colonialism really, we went to a very, very remote place to film a dance. And I can't know quite where it was now. But the district officer was 24. And he was the British government there in the middle of this great waste, you know, and everybody respected him and he respected all these people, and he regarded himself as the defender of these people against this system of the government, any attempt to interfere with them, and their lifestyle and their life patterns, you know, he was fighting for them. And then so many pieces one went through there, these young district officers were tremendously dedicated people, because they understood what they were supposed to be doing and what they were doing. They were not there as superiors, you know, they were there as sort of intermediaries. And that I think, was terribly, terribly valuable. And that is sort of aspect of, of the colonies that nobody has ever said to speak, talked about, really, they would have been regarded colorism as a sort of candidate exploitation, instead of helping people to route to Self Realisation. The other thing, of course, it struck me that it mean, just, I'm a Londoner, born bred and everything, that I had never been struck before about tribalism. Because I thought, well, really, what we're doing really is we get lots of people who have tribal values, and tribal customs, and trying to sort of iron it all over and call them Africans. And that must be a cause of some kind of problem, when we aren't here anymore to it over. And of course, circumstances have shown that tremendously. But What amazed me when I talked to people about I found it difficult to put it into words. But when I did talk to people about it, they sort of said, well, just they're just tribes, you know, but they're all Africans. But they never seem to be be aware that each tribe had its own manners and customs and history, and its own place in the universe, not, you know, of humanity. So I mean, it's a that to great extent was tremendously educational for me as well. But I say to be the film is the film is significant in the fact that really, that film is the last bit of colonialism we see on the screen. And a lot of it isn't in the film. I mean, the district office, he is never there, and what he says and what he thinks is not in the film, the person has no part in the film, if you know what I mean.

Rodney Giesler  17:13  
Can I sort of ask you a general question, Joe, you said in the in our first interview, you described how, when you were young, you were mad on films, and you saw Battleship Potemkin, and that decided you were on a film career. Now, looking back on your career that started all those years ago? Do you feel you've fulfilled your hopes? Or how do you feel your careers worked out? What did you hope to do at the time? And have you done it?

Joe Mendoza  17:45  
Well, I wanted to make films, so taught people about themselves and about their world, and that they would know a bit more about themselves and about their world when they see my movie, that I suppose is to try if you try and put into a couple of sentences is what I want you to do. And to a certain extent, I suppose I have done it. I didn't. I didn't really know. I mean, you can't evaluate it. I'm going to look when I see my films on video on tiny screen the video, they will record the sorts of pathetic review sort of half hearted you know, but we've got some brands I think about the other offer sort of pompous overbearing films that were made. At the same time. I think mine is slightly better and more meaningful.

Rodney Giesler  18:26  
You feel you've left something of yourself up on the screen

Joe Mendoza  18:28  
there. No, I think so. Yes, I have really, I mean, in a very modest sort of way. I mean, I wouldn't pretend I've The thing is that I tried to explain people to themselves. I mean, I made this film about Irish farmers, you see, and it was a film about mechanisation that was made by so to try and persuade farmers to look for look towards mechanisation. I said, Look, you know, we don't want to make a film that tells them what to do. We want to make a film about what says what they think about it, and how it reacts to mechanisation. And that in fact, is what we made the film and said In fact, I want to make a film that doesn't look as though I made it. I want to make the film it looks as though they made it and that is it has been mostly it did a very good job that film. I mean, I when I was writing around to try and get videos on my movies I wrote to share so and they wrote me amazing letter bad wonderful letter back saying you know, how significant the film have proved to be. So that was quite won an award in, in a sort of world competition of agricultural films as well. But that's, that's what I've always tried to do with my films is to try and sort of make make people realise about themselves when they're viewing it, I think, I suppose.

Rodney Giesler  19:50  
Did you ever want to make a feature?

Joe Mendoza  19:52  
Oh, well, I do. What do you say I started out as a feature writer, I desperately wanted to write features. I never wanted to direct them. I wanted to write them. I mean, I was conned into being a director completely. I mean, I was working at the film, I was working at the film Producers Guild. That's an assistant director, because I couldn't get any work as a writer, and I had white usual remortgaging as well. He's an assistant director on the Guild, quite an important film. And I've had a very good relationship with the director. And I said to him at the beginning of the film about us, you know, are you the soldier director that tells me what to do? Or am I the sort of assistant that tells you what to do? So he said, You're the sort of system that tells me what to do. He said, this is a very long, complicated film, and I'd very much like somebody to look after it for me, which we did. And then deputy for the film finished, his gastric ulcer broke. And he said on his sort of sick bed, oh, let Joey finish the film. He's the only one that really understand it. And so I did earn it worked out, right. And so there's that right, Joe, the next directing break is yours. for about four or five years. I thought, really, someone's going to find out I'm not really a director, I'm just a writer with a director's hat on. But then I did have to make a film, which was absolute bastard and I thought Really? Or Joe, you're the only person who could have finished this film. So I've been addressed for a century.

Rodney Giesler  21:21  
You made a lot of commercials.

Joe Mendoza  21:23  
Yes. A tremendous number. Enjoy. Yes, I suppose. So. It was it was it was fun to be presented with difficult problems, you have to sell very quickly. And you're surrounded by a whole other people looking at you to solve them. It's much better if you're the driver to be at the driving seat. And do what somebody else Try not to mean mean that's the function of a director you got to you got to know

Rodney Giesler  21:51  
what you are constrained by all these agency producers and being told what to do or I had such contempt

Joe Mendoza  21:56  
as really well they were all little men holding on to their jobs as far as I could see or wanted to

Rodney Giesler  22:01  
look through the camera

Joe Mendoza  22:03  
or the camera and they will want to be directors but they they just want the glamour of directors and the ability to factor they want to add that's that's really what it means to them.

Rodney Giesler  22:12  
And that was maybe a worldwide was

Joe Mendoza  22:14  
no I worked for several several companies. I work for Anglo Scottish making films. I worked for tetra I think doing commercials. I worked for ranks for a long time I worked I had a three month contract with ranks. And that really was they had a documentary film was being made that went very badly wrong. They asked me to remake it, which I did. And they all got excited about it and wanted for more short films grew with me in the middle. But I said I want you to do to stay doing commercials. But they've offered me a lot of money. So documentaries again. When I was at their own organisation, working with their shortfilms group, this business came up where there was a lot of money to be made after making a management training films. And the Rank Organisation thought they'd like to get on this bandwagon and make it a kind of department at Pinewood Studios. Or Railton, who was a producer there was very fed up because he said, Well, you know, half an hour pitches, why can't we meet them the shortfilms group? So everybody said, Oh, well, you know, you can't afford Pinewood you and the budgets and everything is out of the question. You can't possibly do it. So Ray was complaining about this. I said, Well, look, why do you have to make Kimo Why do you have to make these training films at Pinewood? I said, you know, there there must have be all phases of close intimate situations of salesman and a client and all that sort of stuff. They are you won't beat sets and here's this server is obvious, but we even hired a small teacher by a mobile Casa buddy. I said, Well, we've already got us studio, we've got the insert stage at the back of the Hammersmith Gaumont is quite big. We use it for all sorts of things, and raised there but it isn't soundproof, we can't possibly use it. We got to have dialogue. So I said, Well, have you ever thought of using chest mics and see what happens? Oh, well, you know, we knew when there's the trains going by and all that stuff. So I said, well look, the next commercial we make, which we're going to make silent anyway with a voiceover get the, the direct the writer to write it for dialogue. And we're shooting with dialogue and see what happens. So we did this. It was all perfectly all right. So Ray then went up to them in Hill Street, and said let's have a go. So in and this other writer, developed a sort of an inch an introductory film, to a series of sales training folders, you're going to be called the customer a new that was the name of the series of six films, they've scripted out. And the first Account Number The first one was called but we made this first one and you I got them to break the script up a lot. So you weren't sort of stuck in one room for a long time. I, you know, the, the writer was fairly conventional, the good one. And I said, What can we try to break up this, this information to different sorts of scenes, you know? So race, it has picture, but it's all sets. We can't build all these sets. I said, but you didn't have to build a set. It's just people talking. I said, What we want to do is, we want to have a site drama, building a site drama, you know, and a chair and a desk is an office against the site. I said, it's something that you do in this film, who didn't pretend it's an obvious use to tables and chair and the man is in an office talking to somebody new haven't got a calendar on the wall secretaries going by the windows in the background and raise their bar, nobody will know where they are. I said, Ray, everybody says that about forms that the auditor know, you tell an audience This is it and they believe you. That's what movies are, you know. So we keep this in fact, the presenter who was older, older, all around steady, he had a soft desk and his telephone and talking to the audience, you know, and then at the end of his line, he was look camera ride, see? And then in the cart, we'll put him in another set. And he looks camera right to the audience to take the story over. So you go to different sets. Would you really the site with different props and things in it? You know, I think we just use one location that was a car showroom in Hammersmith Harlow success. I mean, it was made about 16,000 pounds, I think quite ridiculous, you know. But the point is, it was movies. They didn't know a lot about movies at ranks as really what it comes to. But it set Rams up for that. They made all the management training films ever since. Of course, they moved into power because they got bigger. This film has made more money so they got bigger budgets, too. In the end, they ended up making the films in Pinewood but with Pinewood budges

Rodney Giesler  27:08  
talking to me

Unknown Speaker  27:09  
it's a pleasure.

Rodney Giesler  0:03  
right this is another interview with Joe Mendoza. By Rodney Gisela recorded on the 22nd of July 1997. For the back to oral history project. When we spoke last time, you mentioned that about the time you joined the GPO Film Unit, you met some of the giants of cinema including how Beto Cavalcanti. Can you describe to me some of your impressions of him at the time?

Joe Mendoza  0:33  
Well, when I joined GPO, I was on my 19th birthday. And I was a very sort of raw and sophistication 19 year old, I knew almost the stuff I had to know from about films from the the, the Polytechnic, obviously, so I knew, you know, I do just what what I was holding my hands, it's big. But I was sort of had to be taught how to, to join the film and everything. You use sort of a mixture of acetone and cellulose acetate, which is an amazing smell. I knew how to sort of scrape away between the beverage and join it by hand on the glass plate with a raise of red. And Cavalcanti was this great, wonderful sort of foreign man whom everybody seemed to adore, and listen to. And yet he was always very warm and understanding to everybody, although full of opinions, he he could always produce an idea when I say an order produce an opinion and a reaction. And I remember him when he would look at a cutting copy that he didn't think was right, right. He'd say, Mr. Lee, you have made me very unhappy for a very long time. Now, let us go through it. That was calves calves way there he was had this problem with his final why's. And then they wanted a whole lot of x material from a film made well before the war, called him 50 million people. And they got all the cuts out and I had to join all the cats out to see what it was all right, because I knew exactly what to do when it was a sound film it when you look at the emotion side, on the right hand side was the blank track for the soundtrack on the top of the frame will be the beginning of the story. And the bottom frame will be the end. And that was lovely. I knew exactly what to do. I was quite confident about it. But an awful lot of this 50 billion people stuff had been shot on a full frame pneumonia. So you had no soundtrack? Yeah. And because unless it was sort of some bs face, you never really quite knew what she was up or down, you know. So there was this huge rate of cancel joined up. And they were shown to Kev

Unknown Speaker  2:56  
he was very embarrassing.

Joe Mendoza  2:58  
Lots of bits were upside down, left to right Battlefront. And Cal says who joined up this material? They said Joey, oh, Joey will learn. He said, Oh, what a wonderful man, what a wonderful man, because I thought he can save me up absolutely rotten. The only thing I remember about him was that gently rang me up with this opportunity to work a GPL formula. I was doing a course on training to be a radio operator for the merchant navy, getting ready to be in the war. This was January 1940. And are you right? Or am I okay? And so a very good friend of mine who was with me in my course at the party was called Colleen Taylor, you see. So when Jen really rang me up and said, we've got a vacancy for an assistant director, would you like to join it, Joe? And I said, Oh my goodness, but I would like to keep bringing you there. Absolutely. I said, Well, is there a vacancy for another one? A very populous area, so we'll call it we'll come to so with two of us joined the unit. And Colleen really was he was blond, and hunky and had a very nice manner with him and he was quite great, a great sense of humour. He was more sort of for outgoing than I was he was a little bit more sophisticated and a bit more worldly, you know. And Cavalcanti I think Mr. Rather fancied Korean because he or she used to say, Conan, Tyra is a very good boy. Mendoza He is good too. And then he had Kev had this wonderful quality of the most fantastic memory. He could remember all the rashes, all the right bits and all the wrong bits. And gently was editing a film called factory front, which was a film made in collaboration with the French and the British armament industries. And it was to be made in French and English for the country. jack redirected some of it, and was editing it. It was Jack's first sort of big editing break. And I was given to him as his actual assistant. And the truth is, I wasn't just a hand in the country, I was working for jack leaves. And then this is one time I was in jeopardy was a very bad boy. Kept denied. So he did. But I always remember one occasion. I didn't quite know did the thermal got into some kind of pickle to say, um, Kev would say, we need a shot. see somebody that does something, something something he said. Now, do you remember when we were filming, and he would give whatever it was the gun in a sling. He said, there were three or four tapes. He said, The first two. Here, the first one, the camera got knocked over, he said, but I think you will find there was something very interesting before the camera got knocked over. Of course, Jerry had to get back to the rushes in case you're gonna check to see. And there was a shortage in Cavs opinion, saved the sequence. And this is how he was he had his marvellous analytical quality about him. And of course, not only with picture but with sound as well. I remember once we're in the merchant seaman from when the merchant ship that was supposed to be destroy, it was a settler. And the torpedo was supposed to strike ship and the crew fed out of the bank and everything. And Kev wanted a special sort of sound effect. So what we did was, we made up a sound of this we, we built up the sound by dropping an empty waste been done three phases, there's into the word of the studio back here that was gave us the rig booms. And then we joined on to it. The sound of a 14 inch gun, I think from the war soundtrack library. And calf said, No, there must be something else there must be something else. What jack Lee I think have been experimenting with some sort of sound recording system is he I don't quite remember the context of this, except that his voice was recorded. And then it was recorded slowly so and it was paid back at full speed. It made a sort of noise like a chicken, you see. And Khalil said health care care said I remember Mr. Lee, this is a chicken noise. Would you speak and quickly find the chicken? Or is that is what we want the chicken also mix into this extraordinary combination of sound when the torpedo hit the ship. Car stop now.

Unknown Speaker  7:28  
I've got to regroup with it.

Rodney Giesler  7:30  
Can I just ask you a question though? Because talking about him and his great memory, you also had what every good producer has to have, which is a film sense

Joe Mendoza  7:41  
of Yes, yes. Yes. Yes. I can tell. Yes, I can tell you about that. I can tell you about that. No, I can tell you. We're running. We are still running again. Yes, you see. The film is only very loosely scripted and very loosely, sort of sharp. We didn't have some type of scripted dialogue. Because it was it was not exactly a shot off the cuff. But the sequences were planned, you know, but I assume I mean, I was never on any of the shootings, I would know that stage. But the film would be get put together and Calvary will be bothered about it. He'd say it is nothing right? It is not like the first minute is very good. Then the next year, four minutes are very poor, it falls to pieces. But the last six or seven are very good. Do not touch them. But we must do something about the middle, you see. Then he'd say we need movements, we must think of some movements to give it some shape. That was his thing always dream up movements to we'll come to a kid or something. You know, I wouldn't really know what she was thinking. I mean, wasn't No, it wasn't in my class, really. But then he would talk it over with everybody and say, there was this shot here. Let's just make this longer lettuce is a stop the movement with this, you know, and he would make a rough idea the overall shape of this seven minutes, you see, and then he would brief the editors, you know, and then he would say, Oh, I retired. He said I'm going home to Stanmore Did you boys will work all night and I will come in the morning and see how you got on. And that is exactly what we did. We did work all night. And Kevin came in. They did you know, it was it was like that. You see you never felt put upon somehow because you had such respect for Kevin his funny ways and his funny voice and his funny accent. And by angry standards, funny attitudes. You just had complete faith in him. Because what he said, always worked. And you knew that it worked. You never knew sometimes if it will work, and he will never know how it worked. But he always worked. And this was because he had this incredible film sense that he had all his life. I mean taking it right with him all the way into eating and everything like that. Okay,

Rodney Giesler  9:53  
because he he was Brazilian. Yeah, he lived in Paris for some time, didn't he?

Joe Mendoza  9:59  
Yes. Well, I can't quite know why he left Brazil for Paris, but he worked in Paris worked with with us, your religious group. And what was interesting about his career, which I've heard this from other sources, of course, not from being there was the fact that he was with making silent films, you know, documentary films, largely in certain also dramatic comedies, I think. But when the sound came, everybody thought it was the end of the cinema. But Caf thought it was the beginning of a new sort of cinema. And he experimented with sound. In fact, the first film sound film he ever made was a film called react kurzer, which was about 24 hours, I think, in Paris, you know, I mean, rich man made something similar in Berlin. And then everybody discovered that you could make films, without actors, and without stories, it would hold an audience's attention for 50 or 60 minutes. So to a certain extent, this was the beginning of the documentary as well as experimenting in sound. And Kevin built up this reputation as being a great filmic innovator. And when sound came to this, I'm just quoting history. Now, when the sound came to the GPO Film Unit, you know, they said, you know, we must get some of you understand sound. And the first sound film they're made was called, I think it was called call phase. And Kev was brought in as the sort of sound advisor and how to use the sound and make the sound a part of the picture. Now I never seen called Phase I think jack Holmes has the credit for directing it. But that really is how Kev came into the GPO filming it because you can't imagine anybody more different from Grayson and Cavalcanti.

Rodney Giesler  11:39  
It was a very interesting soundtrack, because I mean, it was impressionistic in the sense that you had voices Yes. Defining the different jobs underground.

Joe Mendoza  11:49  
I see.

Rodney Giesler  11:50  
Yeah. And, you know, I remember those a word Heuer. Yes. And it said, You and it had dressed up as a sound effect, you know, it was really wrenching his guts out to do his job. Yeah, presumably, this was cows.

Unknown Speaker  12:05  
Yes. Yes. Yes.

Rodney Giesler  12:07  
Was a sort of song without, no, it was a song with words without music. Yes, yes. Yes. Yes. That orchestrated it. You see, there's I think there's a happy coincidence here because the avant garde in Europe was quite influential on British cinema in in, in the documentary movement of allied to this calf was was left wing as well. Yeah. which most of the GPO people were yet, you know, they were all tied up with mass observation and all movements of the 30s. So, presumably, he was an ideal catalyst to bring in to reinvigorate documentary movement.

Joe Mendoza  12:45  
That was the feeling I've got when I was allowed to really was it, the whole unit was in love with the working classes, you know, I mean, nightmare, you know, major star of a sorter, you know, and that was it. It was always I mean, that was what was marvellous about Humphrey Jennings, because although he lived in an entirely different artistic, creative pain from ideas, he still was a wonderfully left wing person, because all his films, and all his life is caring about other people. Other people have a lot of money or a lot of opportunity, you know, what's in them, what's good from them, what's good to help them, you know, and Humphrey, although he was by not not really a political animal, still had this same feeling. And it was the whole unit, but it was no sense of patronage. The only thing if one tries to sort of put a phrase on it was, it was almost as a sense of privilege of being able to be a voice and the pair of eyes for this whole part of England really, I mean, perhaps hats over romanticising it, but it was not patronising. It was not sort of intellectuals looking down and how we can help these four workers. It wasn't a bit like that. It was not a false humility, either. I mean, even Harry Harry Ward who was a wonderful to bumptious fabulous major result of guy you know, he had this quality to was you see in Squadron nine on to the film, or this one. It was wonderful. I didn't work on Squadron on until I was working on another film. When lying it was on. There was also wonderful tin that I was wondering what he meant, and it was called sink dead this way. NCH full stop gigs ghgs and work now I said to the auditor, who was my number one that I might have been golden he was I can't remember who's everything. Who is sink gag. Oh, it's Harry. He goes around getting odd ideas for people when you ask him to have balloons put in their houses. You see, I wouldn't have I remember I saw the sit ghacks was this wonderful line in it? He was in fact he didn't embrace the idea was you perhaps you know that they were putting a Bloomberg up to protect the false breach against Obama's this wonderful woman and she said well, there's a man monster put a balloon in our back Gaston and then haha Each person changes and she looks to the officer and she said, I suppose there'll be a wee bit he compensation for this. But it's all I remember about 990. But it was full of funny little gangster ideas that Harry had some things people had said that he reconstructed and everything in the film. But again, he I think it crystallises his sort of attitude to ordinary people in really well, as far as the GPO is concerned, older people than the ordinary people that won the war. In fact, when we, I worked on London to take it,

Unknown Speaker  15:34  
which I've probably talked about before,

Joe Mendoza  15:36  
and the idea was that we should make a film that did what London could take you did, but did it in greater detail. We made a film, or jack combs directed and wrote it. And I worked on it as an assistant in the camera cutting room. Sometimes this isn't on the floor, called ordinary people, which was about the daily lives of seven or eight ordinary people in London during the during the Blitz. It was a to jack was jack Holmes is a very different sort of guy from the others read a lot of ways. He was more self consciously upper class, more kind of conscious of his education. He was a particularly nice man, a very civilised and considerate man, that he's the only director I've ever known. He used to say, when he finished shooting for the day, he would go around to every single member of the unit, including Joey, say, goodnight. Thank you for today. See you tomorrow morning. It was when you were like I was just adjusting. Okay, it was very touching. And you were because you did feel, you know that although nobody saw you, you were there, you know, and what you were doing was known about even if it was not appreciated. But jack had that kind of wonderful sort of British warmth. But he didn't have the kind of as a director, the sort of analytical qualities or the sort of rate through film sense that other people had, I thought, whether it was within them, or whether it was developed by Kev I don't know. See, the other thing about Kev was that he he didn't just tell people what to do, or how to think he seemed to affect or not even consciously, but by his manner, and by his observation, and by what he expected of them, in the sense that he knew what they could do, sometimes more than than you themselves that they could do. And in that sense, he he made the people in the film unit, much better and more effective people as people. Because he had this great gift of understanding people and knowing what was in them. In fact, I remember once, I overheard a terrible rap. We had our office in Soho square that we worked at the final studio abruptly. I was on the I was in the office collecting some martial rock from count or something. And Cavalcanti was on the phone to hurry up and count Kevin's to do tremendous explosions for II throw the most fantastic temperaments you know, very, very excitable, very, very excitable, it's certainly better these are on the phone. He said, Mr. Buck, he said, in seven years I have taught you how to be a film director, but I will never be able to teach you to be a central man, you know. And that was the point you see, because calf was a gentleman. He was an aristocrat, you know, his father was a quite a very, very important man in the government. And Cavalcanti aforesaid had an extremely sort of special sort of schooling, you know that he was going to be a member, obviously, the bulk of the Brazilian diplomatic service or something. But he had this wonderful sort of fixation on film, and he was just going to be a format. He wasn't an avid diplomat. But cat had this marvellous sort of old fashioned courtesy when a which, which always persisted. He had this wonderful mother who wishes to be on with Madame Cavalcanti, who always used to be around she always reminded me of Queen Mary because she was seem to be sort of blue grey in all her clothes, and I don't think she wore a flower tote. Like we're very wishy washy, do wear hats in the sort of way the query Did you know? And, you know, when you when cam said, I'm going back home to Stanford, you know, he was going back home to his mother, and in later people whom I met talking about care who knew more about him. His mother always was a very senior person in his life, because I think his father died when he was a young lad. And I suppose Kev was gay. Now we know in concert Yeah. And I suppose he must have been a mother's boy, like so many gay people. can't do anymore. Sarah Kevin.

Rodney Giesler  19:49  
He was, I mean, he was considered presumably an alien during the war. What's he never got naturalised or anything.

Joe Mendoza  19:55  
Yes, you see what it was all right in the beginning of the war, because Everybody knew that the GPO for when it was mad, it was, it was staffed entirely by wild eccentrics, most of whom were communists, you say, but that was the GPO filming it and everybody took it for granted, you see, and it was quite natural that a communist Brazilian guy should run it. But of course, the problem was that after the great success of London and take it, people were asked if you really could do cost a lot with film because this the London cake, London debut was made and was designed to act as a sort of influence on America to bring them into the war and to contract and to combat the the German propaganda that the war was the Blitz was destroying London and destroying the British morale and it wasn't very long for they'll give in you say. So once London Carnegie to be incredibly successful in the cinemas in England, and also, of course, this effect in America. The mansion information got interested in it, they thought of it only really as a film in it, that was spit Thursday information forms, how to put a gas mask on and how to sort of know, cook food economically. But gradually, they realise that it will also could or have, after lunch, they get a sort of propaganda effect. We know, a morale booster, and also a great method explaining where we were overseas. So then it became then it was going to become then they decided it was going to become an arm or a part or department of the Ministry of Information. Part of the government, not just part of the GPO. And then I suppose they will people got together and sort of said, Well, can we can they have a government department rombro Brazilian intellectual, queer, even a copy of communist? And I mean, this is just my own speculation. I didn't have any sort of proof of this. But it just it just became so obvious somehow that was being aged out, you know? Because although people accidentally Bernstein and GM was named now, but he was another man who was very influential, very for the unit, you know? Yeah, get better. Get better. That's right. I mean, they were they were terribly full for us what we were all doing, obviously, you know, on our side, they probably realise that if unit was going to become effective, and given to be able to develop all he could do and be within the thing of government, it had to have a more conventional head. That I mean, this is just how I see it

Rodney Giesler  22:47  
kind of moved on to eating about this time.

Joe Mendoza  22:49  
Yes. Well, you see, what was interesting was this was that after the successful run, can take it in two or three films after that. Michael Balkan had this idea that eating could be used to make propaganda films. And he thought that they could make propaganda films with a sort of feature slump, not so much tied in with the daily message, but you know, a wider in and he had this idea that he wanted to beat two satirical films. One of them was Fellini and one about Hitler. And again, I don't know how it happened. What happened was, Cavalcanti was invited to come to Elan to make the film about Mussolini, which was very funny and very good. He was called the yellow Caesar. So whether cab was on sort of loan for that, or what from the film in it, whether it was so to speak to be a bridge between the film Kevin the filming it and Kevin using that I don't know enough about. But I remember

Rodney Giesler  23:49  
the film was made.

Joe Mendoza  23:50  
Yes. COVID it was quite good. It was quite funny. But

Rodney Giesler  23:53  
it used the tool as it

Joe Mendoza  23:55  
was want to buy knowledge. It hasn't No, but I have I have seen it's calculated to God to us. But there was sort of an you know, the point is that I was very sort of low down on the hierarchies. I couldn't really sort of say much but it just seemed to me that one day Kev was there and then the next day Dell was speaking to us all down in our input are saying you know, very sensory but I think it's from the heart saying what a privilege was that the unit because cap Dell was voted in by a group of people like Harry and jack Holmes is our sex This is a man we'll have dinner was Dan had a marvellous reputation in features as you probably know with corder and and with Balkan and with going British films, editor and writer and so on. When he was quite sick. He was by no means a nobody in the feature business Dell. But here we go. We've got we've all got together for Dell speakers, and he said that he thought it was a great privilege that he'd been selected to run the unit. And that, you know, he regarded himself merely as a sort of channel between us and the authorities, and that he was there to look after us and to protect us from too much ministerial interference, which, in fact, is what he did do. I mean, you know, the Brits aren't very good at films, basically, you know, British authorities didn't really understand movies. They think it will be made by lots of wild, wild eyed Russians, you know, that dad was able to sort of nurse things along and get get us facilities. Now also fact the extraordinary sort of attitude of the Treasury, you know, that everything has got to be marginalised. And what, what profit you make from this outlays was in a measurable in boundaries and Ben's Dell, Dell managed to say, look, you know, we can't tell you, we didn't know how much it was going to cost. We didn't know what value is going to be, but you must make it because, you know, that was that was his function as far as I could

Rodney Giesler  25:58  
see Campbell County left while he was still with the unit.

Unknown Speaker  26:01  
So Campbell County

Rodney Giesler  26:02  
left while he was still at the GPO unit.

Unknown Speaker  26:05  
Well, I was Yeah. Oh, yes.

Rodney Giesler  26:07  
you've just described the speech and so on. Now, was it at that time that you went to become Humphrey Journyx assessment? Oh, Lord. Listen to

Joe Mendoza  26:19  
me, I'm trying to attract I think we're working on. I was working on the film with Charles hassy. That Harry was started. It was about the police more time.

Rodney Giesler  26:32  
Was that war, an order or an order? Yeah.

Joe Mendoza  26:35  
And then I was sort of I was sent for, to the production manager's office that we had a production manager door, right, who, oddly enough was a woman and that was another tremendous step for this. Male chauvinism. The GPO film, they're actually having a woman production manager, but she's a very tough lady and she knew her business and she could handle all this territory. Well, really, because they knew she would do her job. And she, she said to me, you know, we want to take you off to the police film push with Humphrey Jennings. And I have a feeling I've told you all this before have I know you have Yeah. So anyway, I was pushed with help. Again, Mr. Brittain, largely because I do it. I knew a lot about music, but I could, I could read a score. I could follow a score, put it that way to be perfectly accurate. And I could help step in, I could help Pumphrey choose the bits of music he wanted, you know, and so I acted as a sort of music advisor to help free as well as his sort of his his assistant and gopher and make things happen that he wanted.

Rodney Giesler  27:50  
Yes. You described in the last? Yes.

Joe Mendoza  27:54  
Yes, yes. Yes.

Rodney Giesler  27:58  
You spoke at quite great length about Humphrey Jennings about I remember you saying that. He never Started off making the same film that he finished.

Joe Mendoza  28:07  
No, he never did. Never.

Rodney Giesler  28:09  
The material sort of coalesced. In his mind. Yes. Towards the end.

Joe Mendoza  28:15  
Yes, he gave it had a new slant in another column in a new context. mean words for battle, you know, nothing was shot for words of battle at all. But for better happened. I mean, CNC was a battle of I think weapon tanks going round Trafalgar Square. That was a mad idea of the ministry information thing. We've got 25 repetitions going around Trafalgar Square, will you present a camera man? So we said, okay, they're the bosses and we sit in the car here to camera and Jen, Jen, somebody else. One camera man was in a static camera position. The other one I think was to figure out in the car or in a tank, you know, and all this stuff came in and went to Tim called him with potential square. and Humphrey must have seen it.

Rodney Giesler  29:04  
But Parliament Square

Unknown Speaker  29:06  
Parliament Square.

Joe Mendoza  29:09  
And, of course, hopefully had the Abraham Lincoln. Abraham Lincoln statue was shot forward so that he wasn't shot for the purpose of carrying around flags around Parliament Square. But Humphrey must have seen this material, you see, and it just struck on his box.

Rodney Giesler  29:30  
Because the selection of the material was of equal importance to his selection of poetry. of the words of Milton. Yes. Oh, yeah. And Rudyard Kipling.

Unknown Speaker  29:41  
Yes.

Rodney Giesler  29:43  
You know, somehow they struck. He obviously knew what images he could bring on board when he decided to use those pieces of well, I never know where they from

Joe Mendoza  29:53  
the area forget to go with Milton about the timorous and clutching chimerism catching birds fear the shadows. I think Head amazing shot of Hillary is down to the shadows of concrete and forest. But he probably has a shot. Very possibly timber isn't flocking birds. And the other thing the the the anti aircraft people the there was sort of aircraft apprentices and something we haven't you know, shot that for another film which never got made, you know. And that was that was the time of the Young Eagles viewing how mighty you know.

Rodney Giesler  30:33  
So you actually worked on worse for battle wisdom,

Joe Mendoza  30:35  
but I never I never knew it was revenue it was worth the battle. Because I was on I was away that night in Hong Kong personal commands me and I came back and I had Humphrey was Shane were to better and said to me that what if we're here? Have we had a wonderful attacking machine and making your sort of self satisfied smile? We expected the compliment. said well, joy, he said, What do you think of it this year? I said to Humphrey. It's just a collection of nice purchases, nice pictures. He said, I don't I can't really see what I think is a film and he was furious. He pointed his finger at me and said furious,

Unknown Speaker  31:12  
furious.

Unknown Speaker  31:17  
But that was

Joe Mendoza  31:19  
pretty quiet. Right? I was a purist in a pregame. But at least I was honest.

Rodney Giesler  31:26  
Because there was a very good chemistry between you and Ron Paul and Humphrey and I believe.

Joe Mendoza  31:30  
Yeah, well, you see, Dell reports. Every person who's heard of the st voted mental statue capable of appreciating I've read because I mean, people like Harry thought he was a weirdo. And just crazy, you know, negligible. I mean, even but Norton, who was a marvellous editor in a very complete person as a personality. Thought Hampi was a bit far out, you know, the only person who ever seemed to sort of handicap Humphrey was MacArthur because maganda was about I wouldn't say as mad as Humphrey. But he was on that of that level of living with Humphrey was out, really. But the rest of the unit, I mean, including the camera people, Jerry Jones was a rock solid character. You know. Fannie Mae says, what he wants what he wants, I know what he wanted for. So that that was what it was. I mean, you see, Humphrey never had good he didn't make films like other directors do. I mean, direct to them a film with a camera and they tell the camera man, what's in their heads and what they want to achieve together and, you know, pick each other's brains, you know, but the Humphrey just said, You know what, I want this or I want that, you know? And then somebody would say, Well, what about the cursor? How big was it? Well, what grows up? Here? Well, you must have wanted to, I mean, that was it. Humphreys. Humphreys heads cutting copies in his head, you know, and they were accrued?

Rodney Giesler  32:51  
Because one of his perhaps most famous film files were started. Yes. must surely have been shot as a film right at the beginning. I mean, there was a script.

Unknown Speaker  32:59  
Yes, it was.

Rodney Giesler  33:01  
Yes, it was great. scripted. Or people talking. Yeah. Acting as themselves. Very. Yes. Yes. And that marvellous. One man went to Moses sequence in the fire station.

Joe Mendoza  33:11  
Yeah. Well, that was where they make their way that was that was very Humphrey, very Humphrey. That was whether that must have always been in the script. I'm sure it was hidden, never looked to me like the sequence that was stuck on top. It'll say, well, who are all these people? We've got to have a sequence to tell us. I mean, by the way, I Humphrey thought, I reckon that was always in the story, always in the script. I may be wrong, but

Rodney Giesler  33:33  
he handled that cast. So well. They were real people. You know, Jacko, who dies. And

Joe Mendoza  33:40  
you see, this was the thing about Humphrey intellectual, terribly clever people frightfully fashionable. He will frightfully. establishment people also thought Humphrey was crazy. But ordinary people who just went about the ordinary lives, thought Humphrey was just another cat that they met. And that was really how he related to them and how they reached him. They were all ordinary people together. They never thought that he was Harvard. He just thought he was sort of a bit though, but he seemed to know what he was doing. And he seemed to know what he wanted. You know, and people had a natural respect for him. They didn't judge they were judgmental about him. You see, which all the other filmmakers and will the people in the future studios work every judgmental about Humphrey, but they didn't have they didn't have that kind of su trip. And he always got on terribly well with people. But never by patronising them either. You know, he was never lost in any sense of the word. You know, they had got what he wanted, and he wanted to get it from them, you know? Or they thought about things he wanted to find out why they thought about it and how they thought about it, and how they expressed it. Humphrey was awfully humble is in that respect to tremendous management Humidity really, although people used to think he was arrogant and overbearing, because he was arrogant and overbearing about what he knew he wanted to have in his bloody movie. And he didn't want a lot of other people to tell him that it wouldn't work, or that he couldn't have it. When that really is why I got on quite well with homebrew because my thing was, if he wants teams to have it, no, but it mustn't cost too much. It must mustn't mean sort of, sort of 15 hours overtime, in the middle of the night, in the afternoon, in a room without lights, you know, that was that sort of thing, you know. And, I mean, although I was, I was led in a very inexperienced one. Humphrey will did, he did sort of trust me in that way. In the beginning, he was sort of, he started to argue with me, and you know, and see me clearly and I said, Look, champion. This is what this is what you want for your film. Fine, you must have it, you know, he must have it. But no, just tell him. Tell me more about what it is that you want. And I make sure you get what you want. Because you have you have wild ideas. And then I try and sort of say well, is it is a daytime sequences, nighttime sequence, and how do you see what? Well, it's got sort of big patches of light and that sort of stuff. You know, he he tried to express what it was in his imagination and your transfer get him? What was there for him?

Rodney Giesler  36:18  
I'm interested in knowing a bit more about the relationships in the unit because you were on Humphrey terms. And you were Joey, I'm sorry. You were on first name terms with Humphrey.

Joe Mendoza  36:26  
Oh, yes. Yeah, it's the actual way.

Rodney Giesler  36:28  
Yeah. But back to calve routines, Mr. Canty, Mr. walks and so on. I mean, how did this well

Joe Mendoza  36:37  
capitalise or cavies to call Harry Mr. Waters? Mr. Lee, you know, as a side. Chair change emphasis. I guess Yes. That was that was carefully.

Rodney Giesler  36:51  
The unit was reasonably democratic, was it?

Joe Mendoza  36:54  
Yes, yes. I mean, I I always call Mr. Hanson's to homes that I always think of Mr. hams as Mr. Holmes. In fact, even when I will directly for him. It took me a long time to get used to call him jack. You know, because Mr. House is like that. Yeah. You know, Mike will say this, you know,

Rodney Giesler  37:22  
of course, by the time time would go going with the film you're far apart. Yes. Yes, it has been just just crown.

Joe Mendoza  37:32  
Yes. I mean, when I left them, we were all denim. I mean, it was a big thing about moving to denim from this financial studio, Blackheath I remember, calling this is my mate and I, we were responsible for we leave the library you see, besides a mu Larry's walking about with 1000s of cells in the back of a lorry and sitting beside the man's drive now. I never thought of that, because these tins of film went back to the, to the old days, you know. And there was this one, the hammer, the cans used to have mysterious labels on them and Avenue. And there were some cans, which were called TP. For a long time column, I tried to think what TPO was. So I said, well, let's have a look. So we opened the tin,

and we looked at the film, and it was a nightmare. Travelling post office in so there you are holding the cats of nightmare.

A little bit like the Turin Shroud. There was terrorists really, unless and ever, and then you find a rusty din and written nothing.

Unknown Speaker  38:43  
And there was nothing in it. One of these wonderful other people

Unknown Speaker  38:53  
said nothing anymore.

Joe Mendoza  38:54  
Put it away. If you just hear it, cuz he is on a submarine say nothing. I trusted him with nothing in it.

Rodney Giesler  39:03  
Was it true? I mean, I don't know about your time. But was it true in the GPO days that they have a special brush? policeman sitting in all the unit in view of the rather sort of dangerous opinions held by their members? Well,

Joe Mendoza  39:20  
that was all it was. It was before my time. I mean, I mean, I joined them in 1940. And they've been going for six years, you see. So I wouldn't I wouldn't surprise me. Because the whole thing the face aspect. Many

Rodney Giesler  39:35  
films were made and paid for and distributed by millions of people.

Joe Mendoza  39:40  
Yes. But it's the British attitude to art, isn't it? You see, this is a trouble. If it's good, it must be service. And if it's the birth it must be set on.

Rodney Giesler  39:57  
But I can remember as a child evacuees You know, going to 16 Mills shows in village halls to see target for tonight, next of kin or whatever, you know, so that it was it was widely,

Joe Mendoza  40:11  
widely said, Well, I was there when they were making target john Christie gun was going was cutting of assistance and that I told you this, but if I have stopped me, but john Chris worked on target right through beginning to engineer. And in the end, he knew the whole dub track off by heart. And he could sit down and play the piano, all the music and all the dialogue with john Christmas party peace.

Rodney Giesler  40:40  
If I interviewed john A few years ago, I interviewed john.

Unknown Speaker  40:43  
Yes. Did he tell you that?

Rodney Giesler  40:45  
He didn't tell me that? Yeah.

Joe Mendoza  40:49  
Was that wonderful is one line john owes you. I remember he said. You may laugh surgeon Cauldre. But it happens to be a very important target.

Rodney Giesler  41:03  
I remember looking at it a few years ago. The upper classes of those days always pronounced a is like ease. So you had the briefing officer at the briefing room, you know, it's the enemy's oil tanks to be destroyed.

Unknown Speaker  41:19  
Yes.

Rodney Giesler  41:21  
strange way of speaking the language as long as it's

Unknown Speaker  41:24  
solid speech. Yeah.

Rodney Giesler  41:27  
Were there any other characters even remember, in the chrome days,

Joe Mendoza  41:32  
the characters gone. I remember editor, editor called Gordon Hales, who is very, very quiet, and very sort of refined in the best sense of the word. He used to sort of sort of shrivel when people use bad language. And he used to lose his temper sometimes when things went wrong, got started up in totally new, and he say,

Unknown Speaker  41:58  
Oh, damn,

Joe Mendoza  42:00  
it was his. That was his big word. He gave it also rather he looked around the country and say, Please, I do beg your pardon. Everybody said, I gave into an emotion. I used bad language. And he really meant a golden he was that sort of guy. Gordon, of course was famous in the answer. He laid all the tracks for him to the fifth. He was the one who invented the bow and arrows with it with the elastics but I never quite knew what it whatever happened to Gordon in the end of the day he Yeah, he did enough a bit but he was he wouldn't join the union because he did the approval. You guys remember that? Because in those days, you know Ron, who was a shop Joe went around says Would you like to join the union