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Unknown Speaker 0:04
the copyright of this recording is vested in the back to history project. The name of the interviewee is Louise Wilcox, who is a sound supervisor. The name of the interviewer is Vanessa Jackson and the date is 29th of March 2019.
Unknown Speaker 0:22
So, Louise, can we start just with some formalities your name? Your date of birth, your place of birth? Your nationality? Okay. Well, my full name is actually Mary Louise Wilcox. Neo Jackson. I was born in Bolton in the Northwest on the 12th of April 1958. And nationality. You're British? Yeah. Okay. And have you won any awards in your your long career? Well, I was part of the team that won a special craft BAFTA for spring watch in 2011. I also won the team award. Well, we spring watch one the team award. And I will do is that I think it was two years ago. 2016. Not RTS. But I think pro sound news did a team award we won that for happily, or unhappily. I've not got an individual BAFTA or an individual award. They're always teams.
Unknown Speaker 1:11
So yeah, in theory, I've got a BAFTA, but I don't physically have it. It's in the production office of spring watch. Okay. Yeah, I know that feeling is.
Unknown Speaker 1:19
So just going right back to the beginning. Did your parents have anything to do with with broadcasting industry? No, but my father was interested in making cine films and he had a quarter track and half track tape machine. I remember going on holiday with his cine camera planted in the, in the windscreen and what have you. So I think I get my interest in what I do from him. My grandparents on my mother's side were very musical. She was always very aware of kind of sounds around and mentioned those a lot. Like the first time the first place to be pedestrianised in the Northwest was Bolton Town Hall Square. And she said I stood there and I listened to all the footsteps and people talking for the first time not being obliterated by traffic. She had that conversation with me when I was four. So I think it started a trend. Or maybe it was it was in your genetics. Maybe she she had that for you. So tell me about your schooling and your education? Well, my schooling was pretty much of a disaster. So we moved to from Liverpool to a place called Hesketh bank, because I was a being a problem child at school and my primary school I ran away from school three times because frankly, the schools like going back into a Dickensian novel. And my dad said right we'll move and we moved to a place called Hesketh banquet in Southport in Preston where I went to a far better primary school and pass my 11 Plus and it ultimately got sent to Penn with them Girls Grammar School, where frankly, I wasn't the best at the class. But clearly, you know, best of the best I was somewhere to where two thirds down the pecking order if you like, but it was a little bit I was a fish out of water. I had three brothers, no sisters, and I found this all female environment quite discomforting. And unfortunately in 1970, my father was killed in an industrial accident when I was about 12 I was 12 just started the second year of having them Girls Grammar School and my mum used this the bereavement as a reason to remove me from the school because I clearly wasn't obviously one wasn't happy with that situation she brought me back to the what had been the secondary modern but was turning into a comprehensive school in our local village which meant I could go to school with my brothers. I've got one above me and one below me but the truth is that I didn't get as good an education my two best subjects that permit them Girls Grammar School were physics and music which are ideal qualifications for this job. But when I got to the comprehensive they were just starting and would you believe the two subjects were mutually exclusive in any of the streams that you could take and I made the mistake of taking music and not physics. What I should have done was all music para pathetically and physics taken the course and so I went on to take all the wrong A levels I think I took English music and art and design which didn't have my best result would you believe is in art and design I got offered a textile design course by you missed it. I can do some fantastic paintings but when they offered me through clearing because I didn't get the results I needed to do anything else. textile design course you must university I just didn't want to sit in front of a drawing board and design fabric for the rest of my life. I thought No. So that was my education. So what happened at that point? So I was then faced with in those days, if you said no to a course through clearing you didn't get offered any others I don't know if that is still the case now. So my grandmother, my mother's my father's mother offered to pay for me to do a secretarial course, and I really loathe that kind of stereotype but I thought I've got to get out there and earn some money my elder brother was a university my want the one just younger than me was just finishing his A levels and wanted to go on to become a journalist. I thought right let's get out there and earn some money whilst I'm taking a year out that's the way I've kind of put it but actually that year out ended up being two years out i We moved house back to Bolton and once I got there I got a full time job after having done some temping I did qualify with 55 words a minute typing 110. In fact, I was one of the two fastest on the call, so I'm quite good at hand. I called and
Unknown Speaker 5:00
Ah, but anyway,
Unknown Speaker 5:02
got a job ultimately at the human loss side probation service. Out on the patch, which was a little bit it was one of the worst crime rates outside of London. But would you believe next door to where I work, the Halle orchestra used to practice so quite often I would end up having lunches listening to the Halle orchestra practising next door, which kept kind of me in touch with the musical side of life. And then after about six months, I realised I was paying my mom's electricity and gas bill by standing orders a way of paying rent.
Unknown Speaker 5:31
By this time, and it was on to his course, but it was still at university, Ben was still at school, and I thought, let's see if I can't get some more money, see if we can cover a bit more anyway. went looking for a job for more money and got interviewed by the BBC and was offered a job a secretarial job for less money. At which point my mum said, Look, Louise, you've always wanted to work in broadcasting, I'd seen a documentary when I was 13. That's about Abbey Road Studios. That's what I want to do. I mean, and she said, Just do it. You never know. And perhaps later in life, you'll be able to switch across and it doesn't matter. I'll cope and bless her that decision means I'm sitting here now. Because after six months in that job, I got one of my bosses spotted that I was interested in sound, he got me an interview with the engineering recruitment department down in London, didn't pass muster the first time took a night class in physics over the next six months, passed muster the second time. And in November 1979, I ended up at the BBC Training Centre, it was not
Unknown Speaker 6:24
ready to do a three month course where ultimately I would end up at Pebble mill to be a trainee audio assistant. And I have to say, when I landed there, I couldn't believe it. I said, it still seems like a dream to me now. So was the initial BBC job. Was that at Oxford, right? It was yeah, sorry. I should have been more clear in Manchester. Yes. And I had to be prepared to leave home. They said, Are you prepared to move to Birmingham? And my mum said, look, it's only an hour and a half away, do it bless. My mum made a few decisions. And I don't really know, I don't know if this happened to you and your BBC career. But for the first 12 months of my career at Pebble mill, I was allowed and paid for on public transport rate to go home every other weekend. Because they were worried about I think part of the ethic of that was they didn't want you your homesickness, to stop you progressing in your job. And they kind of they feel like made you cross fertilise gently. I thought that was really marvellous. It's the kind of stuff that Personnel Department Well, human resources departments don't do now, which is a bit sad. So actually, your your mother made some key decisions that actually enabled you to do what you really want. And at her funeral, it's interesting, my elder brother gather together anecdotes from all four of us. And it's quite clear that she made the same for all three of my brothers. She basically said, Forget me, look after yourself. You've got to survive in this world and a more generous human being you couldn't wish to meet. So well done her.
Unknown Speaker 7:38
So you found yourself with Norton. And what was that like? Because you how many females were on there were four of us, for females in who were placed in sickbay. That's where they put us and we weren't allowed to have men in our dorms. Initially, we had those rules changed, actually, ultimately. And there were I think, about 120 120 to 120, under 40 men who were all doing the A, B and C engineering courses and a courses. I mean, I was a 71. Whilst I was there two weeks later, a 72. To know I was a 7871. And a 72. turned up in pretty short order. They were doing these three months training courses for audio people, camera people, technical assistance to go to Bush House and
Unknown Speaker 8:22
technical operates. So technical operations, Bush has technical assistance to go to Broadcasting House, it would ultimately turn into engineers, they were doing those courses every two weeks for three months. That was the input they needed at the time. So it was a massive expansion. Yeah, it was. Yeah. So how was that course? Because you hadn't done any
Unknown Speaker 8:42
scientific subjects since you'd left the Girls Grammar School. That's right. Well, I did biology and I did okay. In biology, chemistry, I really flunked. But physics was the one who really needed having done the physics Oh, level NYCLASS physics GCSE NYCLASS. Pretty recently to get me there in the first place. And my older brother was a physics student, taking a degree at Liverpool. My boyfriend was a geophysics student, so I got a lot of extra tuition from them. But actually, that course, and you took a test every week, at the end of every week, brought me up to if you like, a level and possibly even degree standard in the bits that I needed to know to do my job. The one course where if you failed any one of these courses, you were terminated. In my case, I would have gone back to Oxford Road, fortunately. But you if you failed you, you move on. The worst one was the one called AC theory that I really struggled with. And I just got through by one answer. Because I was so bad, I revised like hell. I mean, it's amazing how much you will work if you know you desperately want that job. I mean, I could see my dream, riding towards now that I must really, really achieve that. So I did a lot of work. And did you know what your dream was at that point? Well, I was lucky that at the age of that I had what I hadn't mentioned earlier was during that time, I'd seen this documentary. Shortly after my father died. I'd seen this documentary about Abbey Road Studios, and I knew instantly it was like a
Unknown Speaker 10:00
catharsis. That's what I want to do. To be fair. Well, to be frank, my brothers, we were all into David Bowie. We're all into our music. And that was our coping strategy after my father died. My mom bless it took us off said a bowie concert and historic moment David Bowie, Ziggy Stardust, all of that, they formed a band, I tune their guitars, I taught them how to sing. I played this that nearly but I wasn't allowed in the band. And frankly, even now, the resentment for that is still here. And it knocks your confidence. And even though I'm a decent vocalist, I could have been the vocalist of the band. But in 1971, would that have happened? No. And it didn't. So seeing that documentary at the age of 30, and think, actually, this is something I can do. It's almost like performance, but not quite. And actually, I spent the whole of my career doing live programmes, which is a performance coping with the nerves of that is like being in front of the cameras just as bad as being in front, to be honest, some of what we do behind the scenes. Why did your brothers take that out?
Unknown Speaker 10:53
I think it was, it wasn't conscious. It was just, you know, and also, to be fair, I didn't have the confidence, say, can I be in your band? I never overtly asked. Because I have to say it was very much father, daughter, mother sons. It was the same with my son and daughter, I got along with my son really well, my husband gets home with my daughter really well. I think if my dad had been around, well, there's two things that could have happened. If he'd stayed around, I might not be here now, because he might have wanted me to adopt the female stereotype. I think I might have revolted against that. And the fact he was taken into the garage and helping me I was helping him make things I don't think that would have happened. His character was similar to mine, I believe. But the boys were just steeped in the conditioning of the era, as was I. And I'm too, if you like, I might have been too humble to ask.
Unknown Speaker 11:42
And yeah. And I also didn't want to let my mom down if she needed help. I was the one who was offering that that's kind of built into girls, perhaps conditioned by their mothers. Who knows. So actually, you're your boss at Oxford Road, enabling you to go to this course. How did that happen? Because that was the pivotal that was pivotal. Yes. So my ultimate boss, it was one of the six people who worked for a chap called Ron Perlman who, so I would go and collect my boss's cup of tea and coffee in the morning tea in the afternoon, and I was allowed to be there. 15 minutes allowed anyway.
Unknown Speaker 12:14
And whilst I was there, I was talking to some of the comms engineers who I knew because I was organising their interviews, you know, annual interviews and so forth. And I was telling them that that night, I was going to be at the local Hall, mixing my brother's band and for mixing, read, you know, turn the amp up, turn that one down, we call it your vocals, etc. And Ron said, are you interested in sound? And I said, Yeah, I've always been interested in tell them what I've told you about my cathartic programme. And he said, right, leave it with me. And he's the one who got me the first interview. And he's the one who said, Well, don't just leave it there and do something about it. So I then went on to do this NYCLASS and he was really chuffed. When I moved across. My boss was really pissed off. I'd only been there for 12 months. But yeah, and I don't even remember you were supposed to stay in a job for more than 12 months before you're allowed to apply for another one. And they made an exception in my case, I think because at that time, purely coincidentally, Right Place Right Time, BBC had signed up to the all this equal opportunities legislation, wanted to see more technical women in their technical jobs. And there was I gagging to do the job. And they thought, right, okay, facilitated. Also, there's a woman called a name. I've been Sally Lloyd, and certainly her last name was Lloyd. She was a personnel officer at in Manchester, who had worked at the divert facilities that would not during the war as an engineer, and she was the engineering personnel officer. And she also encouraged me to go for it. And I think she might have nudged my boss and said, Come on, let her do it. Because I was rare.
Unknown Speaker 13:35
So the fact that you when you got to word Norton, you were in the sickbay.
Unknown Speaker 13:41
Kind of makes you think that actually they hadn't had women they had. We were a complete anathema to the poor man around the place. What was his name? Ernie Cox, I think it was used to wander around the site with his two dogs. Jackie and Joanna who were doing who were on to a 71 would help bridge falls in their room, not with the other two women, but with two blokes. And he came careering ended, Ernie is to say, you're not allowed to have men in this, you know, excellence. And we ended up we all got hauled in front of it because I at the time he walked in, I got four blokes sitting on each of my two beds. And we were having I think, some really kind of in depth conversation about something very philosophical, there's nothing, no Hanky Panky going on. And even if there had been we were all over the age of consent, and so when we were all wheeled into his office following Monday, myself, Joanna and Jackie, I think the other lady had left by them. We said, Look, I'm 19, She's 21, she's 18 and a half. We're all over the age of consent. This is not your problem. We'll come to you if we feel like we're being caught out by the men, but actually, the men on site were very protective. We were the only four women they could actually take out to the pub, we got an awful lot of, you know, entertainment, we're not talking anything. You know, naughty, we just enjoyed ourselves. We were looked after if anything, and And frankly, I found that throughout most of my career.
Unknown Speaker 14:55
So you were with Norton for what three months? Yeah. And you you were doing various
Unknown Speaker 15:00
is engineering. So the first the first seven weeks is exactly the same for everybody engineers, technical operators and so forth. So it covers the basics, which was part of this AC theory. And then the last six weeks where you're, you go off and do the six week audio things, I'd learned how to tape edit, I learned how to use a fisher boom, learn how to do basic mixing on a sound desk cameraman will go off and do other skills, engineers other skills. So you split at seven weeks, and went to the into various specialisms. And what were your other three female colleagues doing? Oh, Joanna and Jackie, were both going on to be engineer Well, Joanna actually was going to become the first sound assistant to Television Centre. She was six foot and a half engineer bare feet blonde bombshell. Sadly, I discover she only lasted about two years, I think she couldn't bear being the only woman in a department of something like 100. And something that was quite drastic. They didn't. If they've managed to get more women in maybe that made it may have made a difference. I think she went into a production department. So for her, it may have been a vehicle to get her into production. I don't know, Jackie was going on to become I think she was a direct entry engineer. She had already done Electronic Engineering at University and she was going to become an engineer. So she was quite unique as well. The lady who was sharing my part that is in kind of two wings, the other lady near me, I'm not too sure what she did. I think she was also going to be an engineer. To be honest, I didn't get along with her terrible because she was a bit of a religious zealot and trying to push it down my throat and I just kind of kept her distance. But I think she might have been a technical assistant going on to become an engineer at
Unknown Speaker 16:30
Broadcasting House. So you came to the end of your course you passed and bits a bit just just well, the only one that was the only thing that was just everything else I kind of did quite well in. Yeah. And then how would jobs allocated to the trainees. So I knew I was going to Pebble mill, I was the only one going to Pebble mill and there were three others going to Cardiff audio unit and one more going to Glasgow. So anyway, so we've done the last half of our course together, I went off to Pebble mill and there you're deemed a trainee were deemed a trainee audio assistant and was
Unknown Speaker 17:04
either overseen during every job that I did, the only exception was derailed the archers, there are three jobs on the archer spot operating is the first one I was trained to do that for two weeks. And then thereafter I was flying solo doing that. So being the hands and feet of the actors whilst they're walking around with their scripts. In between that I would do things like slapping radio mics on a pebble Miller one and any programmes that I think I was, I was there for the last two or three years of Palmetto at one.
Unknown Speaker 17:30
I did that kind of routine for about two years. But then I was also quarter inch tape editing, I was learning to make small documentaries in edit suites and so forth. And after three years of being a trainee on stage of being mentored by your colleagues, you went back toward Norton to do a qualifying course, which lasted seven weeks. And you know, there was I with a chip on my shoulder have done nothing but radio drama. And then actually, when I talked to all of my colleagues, all the Cardiff people who spent their life in continuity, doing nothing but continuity, jumping Glasgow, had only seen an edit suite for and I thought, You know what, I've done this, I've done that pebble mill was the best place to go to get a broad spectrum, audio education in the BBC. I couldn't believe actually, and how lucky I was and a chap called Mike Tolbert Smith was one of our lecturers. They're very funny character. But he kept saying, right, Louise, tell him about this, Louise, tell him about that. And I realised I was the only person in the room because virtually all of us who've done the course came back at the same time. And they were so cheesed off that they hadn't been able to do what I'd done. And that I think, was across the board at Pearl mill, because it was large enough that there were lots of different programme areas in both radio and television. And yet small enough that you knew everybody and everybody moved around. And absolutely, absolutely, and the fact that we worked in radio and television, I think the audio unit staff were the most well informed. And the other thing that we were able to do that place people at Television Centre or Broadcasting House couldn't do is when for instance, television went stereo, we could take what advantages there were from radio, which had been stereo for years and dump the stuff that we thought no, there's no way we're going to be panning speech around set, etcetera. We, we knew what we were going to do. And we had all this stuff promulgated out of London, we thought, no, that's rubbish. Now we're doing it like this. And in the end, actually, how we started out doing it ended up being the way everybody did it, because it was, in the end, it was common sense. But yes, we were in such a creative environment, such variety programmes with the status of network programmes, not just regional programmes, but we weren't really appreciated by London. My other half if I may digress for a moment, my other half went to do what was called the sound training course in London. And in theory, you had to do that course before you could be promoted to a senior audio supervisor. And he was sitting in continuity in London, watching pebble melawan going out and
Unknown Speaker 19:54
we'll put a bleep in for a we're doing inserts into the into their bleeping programmes now
Unknown Speaker 20:00
They really resented the fact that we had a network profile is the impression he got, certainly, operationally they didn't like it.
Unknown Speaker 20:08
Yes, as far as they were concerned, we just should be doing regional stuff. But we actually did. When you look at our pebble Mills, old CV, it was very impressive. Yes, the daytime stuff that later on got stabbed and stabbed and stabbed with money. But it taught people like me how to make live programmes with very few resources, but to still make sure you stayed on air. You know, no matter how strapped you were for cash, and of course, the, excuse me, the building was built for live, wasn't it? The whole place was wired. We could do anything anywhere. And then when we got money to do the high end stuff, because we were so good at doing the cheap end stuff. We actually did the high end stuff even better in my view, but I'm biassed.
Unknown Speaker 20:46
So you did a lot of radio drama particularly archers, you went on your your qualifying course. Did that go? Okay. Yeah, yeah, I qualified. And so then you require the kind of status of it, you know, op five, or band five, whatever you get to that you've right, you've qualified, you're ticking the box, you're at that basic grade now, and thereafter, any promotion was via applying for jobs. And so you act up and get to experience and then you apply for the jobs.
Unknown Speaker 21:13
It was about the same time I started doing more boom operating in radio drama at that time, we did lots of multicam drama in television.
Unknown Speaker 21:22
After about two years of doing more of that, and also working on the later iterations of the daytime programme that had been pepper mill at one and so forth. I started acting up more and more in semi supervisory positions. So then after about, I think, three or four years, I got promoted to an audio supervisory level. So grandma pinging dubbing theatres, I did an awful lot of dubbing Top Gear Countryfile, as it is now farming as it started out being lots of other dramas in dubbing, I would be the ground up in the drama studio, in the television studio for one show that sticks out was something called putting on the Ritz which was really based on the stage show bounces, and you'd follow that through to the dubbing theatre with your sound supervisors. So it became your little baby and the place was small enough to do all that cross fertilisation but big enough to do projects that were of significance. So you what you recorded the audio on location that was it? No in studio, right. Okay, and then follow through?
Unknown Speaker 22:19
No, so that was all done in studio. But for instance, the Dickensian stuff we used to do, I did David Copperfield out on the road because we've done it in the studio and these hosted dramas then employed our two camera unit to go out on location. So I was one of the boom operators on that because I was going to follow it through into the dubbing theatre. So the guarantee engineer on the truck used it was one boom up you as the ground up with the other boom up and you'd record your while tracks at the same time. Then you take them all back to the dubbing theatre and finish the project off when it has been edited together the studio stuff you've done, and the location stuff you've done, did something else called What was it? The franchise affair? It was exactly the same scenario. So they became your babies Television Centre, you didn't do stuff like that you either worked in the studio, or you worked in dubbing. You didn't have that cross fertilisation. So you didn't own it, and you didn't care for it if you like and I actually think we did. I would say this wouldn't I think we did a better job. Because we cared about it. We didn't just put stock sound effects on we actually went to the effort of getting the right things for the right period of time. And and nowadays that you would be that wouldn't happen either. We know nowadays. Well as with the advent of producer choice in 1993. Some would say rightly, some say wrongly, I actually think somewhere in the middle would be the right balance. producers and directors wanted to make sure that they got the right specialists to do their job. So were dubbing for instance, had been part of the Audio Units remit. That was the first thing to get requested as a separate department. And I was actually one of several people was asked would you like to be a full time dubbing mixer because I had done a lot of dubbing and I kind of thought you know what, I don't sit in a darkened room for the rest of my life. But about six people left our department to go and do that.
Unknown Speaker 23:56
Then films are record is work. That was the next thing to go effectively those people who wanted to do it took redundancy and became freelance. And then gradually our remit got less and less television studio was closed. So those people wanted to do that exclusively. They offered themselves up for redundancy, at that point, being the breadwinner in my family, two kids to support and the husband looking after them full time, I decided not to offer myself up for redundancy, even though the bulk of what I did was television. And fortuitously because by that time I was mixing the arches and would you believe when they got rid of our television studio, the programme that had been I thought the bane of my existence at the very beginning and all those unnecessary evil. It was a thing that kept me in a job because because I was capable of mixing it. That was now my department's core business. And so I stayed employed doing that and towards the end of my days as a staff member just worked exclusively in radio doing that making farmer today and going off and doing the odd any questions or correlating song outside broadcast the radio? Yeah. So television was the thing that you really loved you quality
Unknown Speaker 25:00
FIDE you came back to Parliament. And did it sort of change instantly when you came back that you were because you were at this new grade.
Unknown Speaker 25:07
I'd been making noises about how I wanted to do more television before I went. And I think they were waiting to see if I pass muster. And I later found out they weren't in any doubt that I'd pass muster, but they couldn't actually use me as an assistant on the television studio floor until I was actually qualified, not on my own. So that made that easier. And about 12 months after I came back from my qualifying course, several of our 40 odd year old guarantee engineers as they will be called now we call them sa ones floor supervisors said how about we try our on television OBS, because what they'd worked out was and this is still the case any mixed team male female team, the talent who gets dealt with by a male female audio team tends to behave better if there's a woman in the room. They then started taking me to Cheltenham racecourse, because Julian Wilson, who was one of the ones who did the stand up, you know, the Envision position, he apparently was very badly behaved. Most of the time, I never saw him behave, sorry. And I never saw him behave in any other way than gentlemanly because when I turned up, he didn't do that. So I ended up being requested to go and look after the Envision position. I didn't know this at the time. I only found out a few years later because he behaved himself. But also I think, I mean, as you can tell, I'm not back backwards in talking to people I am actually quite at ease in the company of men and I will chat to people and some of my supervisors said what you do is defuse situations by accident. You being on the crew diffuses quite a bit of tensions because you're prepared to talk about it where some of your male colleagues aren't. And I have since note I'm in charge of quite a few crews. I think the best crew is a mixed gender crew because it does get rid of you know, any masculine kind of measuring contests and female bitchiness, it cancels itself out in my view.
Unknown Speaker 26:51
So you got to work on more of the programmes that you really enjoyed working on what was your What was your favourite? I think the thing that was most challenging for me so by this time I was assigned supervisor I had learned to Music Mix in the popular music studio studio to in radio mainly. And then Roger guest was a mentor of mine. He was mixing a programme called pebble mill not pebble Miller one but it was in our studio, it went out live between 12 and 112, midday and one o'clock. Live Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday in the morning on Monday and Tuesday, you did a recorded one in the afternoon. Three live bands per show. You got there at 730 in the morning or on air by 12. If you were lucky, you got two or three rehearsals of each band before you went on it. It's and he suggested me to be the person to do the other half of the series. I was gobsmacked. The teacher was me.
Unknown Speaker 27:38
But I may not have been the best music balancer. But what I was was good at being diplomatic with the production team. And he knew as I now know that actually mixing the music. Most people can get by as long as you know enough, and I got better. But working at that pace, working with that company is the hardest I've ever worked. I hardly slept but it's the most challenged and most I've achieved I think in the whole of my career. Sadly, I've only got about three show reels from that time. But yeah, mix everything from the killers to the Moody Blues to Judi Dench on a Sondheim special, and I just felt so proud of myself I get on the Qt I didn't get around to it, but I just couldn't believe I was coping with something like from my meagre beginnings and I'll sit there occasionally I'm being paid to do this sometimes a very stressful but it was fantastic. Absolutely the best I've ever been I think so You carried on working on a range of different programmes until what point did you have to leave pebble so pebble no clothes was it about 2003 2004 2003 Four so by that by three and a half it flies by Christmas 2003 I'd already been moved across to the mailbox which is where we just had a radio drama studio made Midlands today farming today and did the odd radio five programme and that was my remit it was
Unknown Speaker 29:01
on the quiet I'd continued to make well I'd been asked for whilst was at the mailbox in 2004. I was asked if I would make something called Britain wild in your garden
Unknown Speaker 29:12
which was just a coincidence and Vali who used to be a production assistant at Pebble mill and a director work they had both worked with me and I was the only sound supervisor think about think of that they both liked so I went off and did this OB and my boss let me go for two weeks do this OB in Bristol, Bristol then morphed ultimately into spring watch.
Unknown Speaker 29:31
A year went by they asked me again to go to the spring watch locate as it turned out to me it was a different name problem was spin watch location in Devon. My boss said no, I took leave my compensatory leave of all the overtime to enable me to keep my hand in I thought I could see that we were overstaffed at the mailbox. And ultimately I was let go in 2006 but I'd managed to cheat by doing this programme on the Qt at the outside broadcast in 2005. So in April 2006 I was made redundant I was able to actually put one
Unknown Speaker 30:00
came on the end of the programme in 2006 doing spring Watch has it then morphed into so you couldn't be on the credits because you gave my dad a posthumous credit David Weir and and and valley colluded and I said, they said we've got to get the sound supervisory credit. So my blessing my dad whose first names was Barry Eden Jackson, I call so my dad got the posthumous credit. He was called Barry Eaton, the sound supervisor on the 2005 Springwatch was my dad. I later discovered he got a career all of his own my brother who writes his own music, who doesn't like to put Nick Jackson producer Nick Jackson vocalist, he goes, he calls him his producer, Barry Eaton, and I didn't know this. So now if you look on IMDb, my dad has got a career.
Unknown Speaker 30:38
years after his death,
Unknown Speaker 30:41
what a nice gesture to do. Lovely, yeah, tear to the eye when I saw it go the first time anyway, spent three weeks in the middle of a field, give me my data, posthumous credit. And then the following year, I could give myself a credit. So yes, 2006 April, that's when I went freelance. And that must have been a culture shock. It was,
Unknown Speaker 31:00
you may or may not know that during this time, for some of that time, I was about to rep. And when I was I finally I resigned at Pebble mill after I think in about 2001. Because I just couldn't bear the grief of us closing down I was I really resembled the VA, I could do nothing about it. So I had to walk away to just keep myself sane. Anyway, when I found out they were we were offering up redundancies, I put myself back on the back to committee. And I effectively negotiated my own redundancy. And it managed to reduce the shock if you like, and we negotiated that everybody was going to be made redundant, I think back to have done this nationally was and we just rolled it out locally. Everybody who took her had volunteered redundancy and was accepted was given some courses to do so actually at the mailbox, they put on a course about how many days freelance can you expect to work? How can you sort out your finances, I went down to the major set broadcast centre, I think in London for one course. And that wasn't bad actually spoke to people who'd actually taken the step. But the good thing was the good luck thing was that the extra the money I got paid out for my redundancy was only part it was necessary to pay the mortgage off. And for years as back to reps, we'd had a bloke called Dennis for light is coming in. And he was about to brought in consultant to talk to people about whether it was a wise idea financially to volunteer for redundancy. And the first question he asked was have you paid your mortgage off. And he said, if you haven't, don't volunteer, that was kind of the easiest way for him to put it. And I thought you know what, I've only got two grand to pay off, I will volunteer because the money that I'm going to get and my redundancy payout will more than cover that. And it is astonishing how little money you spend if you just stay at home.
Unknown Speaker 32:39
So I then copied off all of my contacts and the BBC email list and when I left I just sent a it's been wonderful working with you all just so you know, I'm out here now as a freelance if ever I can do any work for you. It would be a pleasure. I do not I'm here hire me. And but actually, the way so I got to find out that I was being graded on it. Not from my boss, but from David Mason, who was a dubbing mixer. He saw me in this huge open plan office that we had it to the mailbox, he saw me he walked over said Louise.
Unknown Speaker 33:11
I've just found out you're gonna be murdered. And I said, Am I really delighted? And apparently his business manager told him Oh, yeah, we've we've just had our big management meeting. Yes, these three are leaving the audience at least. We've got this woman going on maternity leave Fiona boot was going on maternity leave for six months. We don't want to give you a contract. But would you be interested in being our first port of call? asset? That's brilliant. I don't want to contract because I already know I'm doing five weeks of spring watch straightaway. No, that'd be brilliant. He said Well, if you're prepared to spend the three weeks gardening leave, he said I said I didn't know I've got three weeks going well when he told us how much leave you've got. He knew all about it. And I just started I think classic BBC cock up theory BBC don't believe in conspiracies believing cock ups. That's been anyway. So I said yeah. Okay, so I spent the last three weeks of my career in theory only but actually going on to floor one instead of floor two and learning how to use all the digital stuff because I knew how to mix I just didn't know all the digital gear. So I started out mixing country file and the like. But then after about three weeks, I said you know what we'd like to do five complete months mixing doctors dubbing doctors because we're also behind with our annual leave as well as covering for the owner that would actually get rid of the backlog and that's what I did.
Unknown Speaker 34:19
And how was it going freelance you? What did it pay dividend that actually you knew how to speak to production teams? Yes.
Unknown Speaker 34:29
It was stressful in one regard. In that overnight I suddenly got back the variety that gradually been pared away at a my staff job. But that meant Now fortunately, I'd always been good at writing idiot's guides to various technical areas. And that continued a pace. I mean, I had to learn sitting in front of it and about to do a live. I did something called I got asked if I could do the big questions in question time on an OB truck run by a firm called arqiva. I had never sat in front of a car wreck or mega desk before and you just have to not vote it turns you guarantee engineering.
Unknown Speaker 35:00
Say, right? I know what I'm trying to achieve here. And you've brought up the memory of everybody else's, you know, can you please label it? Because sometimes tell me what's where? And if I need your help, would you please, you know, like, where's the EQ? I know what I'm trying to achieve just which button do I need to press to do it. And then afterwards, being a trained shorthand typist, I would write it all up, and the Idiot's Guide folder in my laptop and on my computer at home, is the biggest content. And I can tell you to how to mix everything from Match of the Day in the studio in Salford, to out of the pitch, to whatever, I have to write notes. And I think in the process of writing those notes, it consolidated in the mind. But yeah, it's quite stressful.
Unknown Speaker 35:39
Quite a, what's the word I'm multitasking, but it means I'm used as Polyfilla by a lot of people and I can be expected to do something it one minute sport, the next great for variety, but can be, you know, pulse rate goes up things that don't know what I'm doing.
Unknown Speaker 35:52
And how has it been in terms of working with companies that maybe haven't got the infrastructure or the support that the BBC has got, maybe you're taking shortcuts because they haven't had got decent budgets? That's frustrating.
Unknown Speaker 36:09
I on on the watches, I fortunately got in at a time when I got myself invited to records. Ultimately, it took a while for me to be invited that and I got myself paid to do planning. And they I made them understand that actually save them money on location, if I did the work before we got there, it saved them X number of mandate of us making it up when we got there. But that's largely because that that team was a an X pebble mill. Indeed, it was, when it comes to for instance, I'm about to do something called Operation live for Channel Five. And I want to be there at the Reki I wasn't invited, I want to talk to the production team about okay, how is this programme structured, the things we would have done in a planning meeting that we would have held at Pebble mill that is so useful, and can save an awful lot of emails flying around. And I'm not going to be allowed to do all I'm going to get as a planning sheet from the engineering manager. And from that, I'm going to have to interpret what I'm expected to do. And then when I get on site, I now know I go and call and people say right from this planning sheet, I think this is what you mean, am I right? Then I'm going to talk to the crew and say no, on this occasion, the crew have done it before. So I say right, you tell me this is my perception of how this is wrong. Is that right? You've got to offer yourself up as somebody who's receptive and then based on experience, decide right actually, now that I know that this is I'm going to change it, this is how we're going to do that. And that's got easier, the more experienced you are. But when you first start doing you think God, do I really just have this planning sheet, there's been no conversation beforehand. The BBC Sound supervisor got involved at an earlier stage. And of course, because he was staff who sit around, you could fold up that produce and say, Do you mind just keep talking me through this, you didn't have to have an official planning meeting. But now of course, every time I sit in front of a client, I have to be paid for it. And nobody wants to pay for it. Therefore the amount of information I get sitting down at the sound desk can be limited and sometimes can cause cock ups to be made. So how do new trainees coming into this industry now cope with that because you you're able to do it because you've got the experience, you know how to talk to people, and you've you've negotiated round it. But an 18 year old coming in as a I really, really don't know. And I'm absolutely certain that if I was trying to with the background I've outlined with the educational background I had, I don't think I'd be here, or could have got to here, if I'd started now.
Unknown Speaker 38:31
Because the BBC wasn't there nurturing new talent, I effectively did an apprenticeship with the BBC, you know, I didn't go to university, they taught me everything I know.
Unknown Speaker 38:41
And unless you can join yourself to the hip of somebody else, and you've got to be wealthy enough to be able to do that. Because you know, I, I am now travelling all over the country. If somebody wants to join themselves to my hip, they've got to have the resources, money, and what have you to be able to travel stay out in hotels and what have you, I can't finance them to do that, who's going to pay for that? So I genuinely don't know. And in fact, my professional body has had three goes at writing to the Director General of the BBC, in particular, about the fact that for instance, the person who mixes Later with Jools Holland is now 75 years old, when he either dies, or decides to hang his headphones up, who's going to replace him? Well, there's one person who's sitting in the wings at the moment who doesn't do the job as well, but he's there, but there's nobody else being trained. You've got sound assistants on the floor, but they don't cross fertilise to come upstairs and learn how to mix. It's just not done. And the production team, frankly, don't want it to be done because you there is no freedom to fail anymore. You know, you're paying for it on the actual live programme budget, and they don't want to see your trainees sitting in. So have occasionally cheated. I've closed the curtain or I've kept the door shut and I've sat somebody in and I've stood over them and talk tell them what to do. But then as you can do that continually. You can do it as a one off as a generous act, but I actually don't know where we're gonna go. And we've spelled this out to BBC Academy. We've spelled that the Institute of Professional sound has built it out to them to the Director General. Do you know the one person who's got
Unknown Speaker 40:00
To do something about it was Entwistle who was only in position was he for about 50 days. Yeah, blessing he'd started something and he couldn't finish it because he had to be what to do sack into the sack himself or didn't was Yeah, Scott allocated. But I've had the conversation with Joe Godwin at the BBC Academy said, you know, and in the BBC Charter, it says The BBC has a responsibility to train has a responsibility to train the wider industry. And that and when we sat in front of the head of the BBC Academy, Joe Godwin's predecessor. She said, What do you mean? I said, Well, just because you don't employ them sound people anymore doesn't mean to say you're not still responsible for training them because according to this, you are. And she said, Well, I just don't have any budget. And that's where the BBC are at the minute. They've got lots of budgetary problems with this over 75 years licence fee thing as well. So I'm sympathetic up to a point. But I think they could have done a better business model. They could have made a business out of training the industry. I don't think they grasp that nettle. So do young aspiring sound recordist. Get in touch with you? Yeah. How could you know give me a job. Would you believe the place where the BBC and others do still train it in radio. And there have been two people I've managed to help somebody get a job in a dubbing sweet in London only because he applied they asked me for a reference. And I gave a very good reference because he was very good. As another chap who turned up as a cameraman's friend to put Mike and I helped me put microphones out around the football pitch, asked me what I thought I said, well try BBC Radio. And I saw him two years later, as a trainee studio manager. I said, Why do I know you said you advise me to do this. He said, I'm having a great time. And he might then decide to resign and go into television, but I think he's still enjoying working in radio. In television. I think we are.
Unknown Speaker 41:42
We have people. We've got an awful lot of kind of, almost not incestuous. But you know, Father, sons, Mothers Daughters thing going on. I don't necessarily think that's the right thing to do. You know,
Unknown Speaker 41:54
outside broadcast companies, though, have now decided to sign up to an obese apprenticeship scheme, which is a government approved one, level seven, which is the highest level apprenticeship government for an apprenticeship scheme. Their problem is, and I'm one of the sound assessors their problem is that they're also flippin busy, that they can't take time out to send these people for their assessments. And also, they have a booklet that we've all helped right, where their mentor has got to make sure they have rigged an envision position rigged a contrary position done X number of football pitches, reads and music so forth, tick these things off. Yes, I can confirm this person's done this and knows technically what they're talking about. We did a welcome to your apprenticeship kind of wake up course about three years ago. And we thought we assessors we're going to go back once every 12 months to tick them all off these waves of people coming through these outside broadcast companies who are at least staff. But no, they've been so busy. We haven't had any.
Unknown Speaker 42:46
And the BBC engineering manager Peter Taylor, who initiated this because the people they were getting throughout the universities, the talent was all over the place. And they wanted to bring it up to the same uniform standard. Great idea, but the business model stops you being able to do it because they're all staffed to the minimum they don't have enough standbys and what have you to. So they're aspiring whether they'll achieve it that whether they'll do an apprenticeship in studios, there aren't apprenticeships in production areas, their apprenticeships in engineering, I've yet to see an apprenticeship in sound cameras or lighting. In studios. Yeah, because I think we were doing one here, which is a
Unknown Speaker 43:28
broadcast sound. Oh, got a joint one between BCU and, and BBC. Excellent. They see the problem of also being freelances. I'm not in the loop. That gossip you used to absorb over the coffee table in the canteen doesn't exist. So I may be completely out of date by about three years. I know about the obese apprenticeship scheme because I'm part of it. I don't know about this, because I'm not part of it.
Unknown Speaker 43:51
So hopefully, good. Thank God.
Unknown Speaker 43:54
So you all the way through your career, you've been one of very few women in a technical area. Yeah. Tell me more about that, and how the highs and lows of that. Well, fortuitously, as you know, I have three brothers, no sisters, and the Girls Grammar School was a complete anathema to me. So I'm used to being outnumbered.
Unknown Speaker 44:16
So I didn't feel uncomfortable. And actually, I would say the middle aged men in my AUDIO unit department were very protective of me and actually encouraged me to do an awful lot of stuff. And I can honestly say with my hand on my heart was like whilst I was at Pebble mill, once they realised that I wanted to do the whole job. I had nobody standing in my way. You had the competitive stuff that went on between you and your peers, but there was nobody discriminating against me if you like, in my personal opinion.
Unknown Speaker 44:44
Now that I'm freelance, it's slightly different. In fact, let's go back a little bit to when I came back after my second child, I was actually in the planning office acting as the deputy audio unit manager for a while because he'd gone on some long term sick leave. And I was
Unknown Speaker 45:00
completely taken aback by how many of my male colleagues, very few women, because by that time, there were eight or nine women in the department that say that I think by then it was only 45. All these men came and said, I don't want to do that I want to do this. They give the scheduler hell saying, Why am I doing this? At the time, of course, we've gone into produce a choice. And this poor woman was meeting the sandwich, he got the audio people saying, but I don't want to do that. And she got the producer, but I don't want that person. I want this person and the shedule that would normally take one day to create, I would allow her to lock herself in her office and it used to take her three days, she'd come out and publish it and then get all this stuff raining down on it from both producers and from these operators. Now, I being the naive female stereotypical type was just obedient. I thought, while I'm being paid to do the whole job. I never went in and asked for anything. Years later, I found I did. Was it five months of going in every weekend to do the late night curry programme. And I hadn't realised I'd done five months until my husband and I asked for a Saturday off. My boss said six months I was no you can't have that Saturday off. I went, what I'm putting in leave for a Saturday. And we had and it wasn't until I looked at the shadows. I've done five week. So I went to see my boss's boss. He said, I'm not going to be here. I'm going to see my daughter dance and what have you anyway, that got all got sorted out? Yes, I was released to it. But the politics, not the politics the manipulating that men do and don't feel guilty about. I think part of the problem for me is I would feel guilty about putting raining this down on that woman. Men don't have that problem. And some women don't. I mean, it's guilt, I think is something that a mother passes on to her daughter. I don't know what you think. But I realised I needed to get a bit more savvy about that. And now as I'm freelance, it takes me it takes me a few gulps, if I'm about to write an email, but I'll say, I've heard you doing this programme. Here's my CV, if you'd like to consider me it will be an honour, I use this kind of sycophantic language, but it's better than kind of give me the job. But what I'm saying is give me the job, and a bloke would do that. So I've got to learn the same techniques.
Unknown Speaker 46:56
I've also discovered that I think I've discussed this before, I think the only time I've met misogyny ism in my career has actually been since I've been freelance. And I think that's because a lot of outside broadcast companies. So the BBC had an outside broadcast section, which was predominantly male sound supervisors, they did, they did have more women, but none of their women had become sound supervisors. They were all guarantee engineers. And I've talked to one of them, who I see now at Wimbledon, and she said, There's no way any one of us would have got sound supervisor job. And I said, Are you saying that's because of your gender? And she said, Yes, I said, really, because I hadn't, I literally hadn't come across any of that at Pebble mill. But since then, you know, I've had people assuming, oh, you know, he doesn't want to work as assistants. So he's going to do your job. And you can you can wash your system, you can teach me how to do that. And you go, what, you know, I kept quiet. Unfortunately, I have this delayed reaction thing, but I did ultimately go to their engineering manager, say if you offered me that the answer will be no, you know, and I'm not here to be able to LCS universal standby. I am actually a sound supervisor in my own right. And funnily enough, this year, all the jobs that were queried with, I had a problem with I've actually been given the job legitimately this year, as a sound supervisor, not as somebody's General. factotum. So I think that message has got across, but once again, you have to learn to say it.
Unknown Speaker 48:13
And that doesn't come naturally, though. I, I very much believe. I mean, I think it's a family upbringing thing, that if you're employed to do something you're employed to do it to the best of your ability. And the mistake I make is in thinking that everybody's ethos is as laudable as mine. And what I've actually discovered is there's a lot more politics with a small p going on, and strategy that I just don't think deserve any place but it's there and I'm naive if I ignore it, so I'm having to learn techniques to manipulate it like they do.
Unknown Speaker 48:45
Tell me about your experiences recently on the watches. Because you went to the States Yeah. to Ottawa. Yeah. And you mentioned to me when we met up last a couple of months ago that they'd said that you were one of a kind that you were unique and and also then what happened right so we did autumn watch in New England and and you probably people watching this will probably realise that if you're going to a foreign country, you have to be really specific about specifying what you need and I was I'm good at my paperwork. I'm good at my planning. If only because I'm anyway, I did fantastic plans and got to the location that employed a sound assistant in America who was actually a sound supervisor quite sensibly, they employed a bloke, who if I fell off my perch got a tummy bug or what have you, he could just take over mixing the programme. He told me that the plans I'd put in with the best plans he'd ever had from any sound supervisor for any programme he said, I just knew instantly what you wanted to achieve by receiving or plans. The guarantee engineer really enjoyed it. It was a really quirky programme for them. We had horrendous problems when they got there, even though I specified everything down to the last one.
Unknown Speaker 50:00
Nail. The pistol grips for the
Unknown Speaker 50:03
microphones had a different screw threat to the microphone stands. They got in from two different hiring companies. And you just thought I really have to specify this. Yes, I clearly did. So my guys got through so much gaffa tape just taping microphones on a lot of those microphones don't anyway. But we managed to get the thing on air by hook or by crook. We had infrastructure issues, this guarantee engineer nearly walked, he was under so much stress. And I ended up going to the engineering manager on the dress rehearsal day, I had no sound sources on the desk at all. This man had been out at a location trying to make all of our wildlife, wildlife microphones work and all the studio stuff was plugged up at the far end. But without him, I had no idea the desk was ready, it was all set up. We just needed the sound source is putting on it. So I said to the engineering manager, right? That man is not going back out to location to fix this infrastructure. I'm told that your opposite number should be here and he's back in his office, please call him back in because I now need this man to stay put. And if he doesn't stay put in the truck. He's told me he's driving back to New York. He's so stressed out. He's tried for three days to make this infrastructure work and it's not working. So there was a certain amount of resentment there I think on the part of that engineering manager, but that's ultimately what happened. He called in the boss to come back on the planet. She's supposed to be there anyway. And my God, we did eight perfect programmes. The director came in and told me what Fantastic job I'd done the.
Unknown Speaker 51:21
And we went away feeling happy. I come back to the UK and the next job on the books was supposed to be winter watch in January this year. And I get a phone call from Rosie Edwards, who used to be an exec for BBC in Pebble mill. She phoned up and said she clashed herself as a personal friend of mine. She preempted all of the following with Louise, you know, I think you are the best sound supervisor I have ever worked with. I walk into the truck, see you and heave a sigh of relief with the words that she used. And I said, but your voice is shaking. You're about to tell me something I don't want to hear what is it? I said, Am I kicked off the programme or what? No, you're not kicked off the programme. But the engineering manager has complained about your performance whilst on Autumn watch New England. And I just thought, right. And this was all about me kicking the problem upstairs. I've now worked out. She said, apparently you sent an email and he doesn't like you sending emails. So I think what I sent an email to this bloke in America saying can you just tell me what kit you've got on the shelves? Because I thought if I find out what sound they've got, there's always 15 different ways of skinning the same audio cat. Let's pick the stuff they've already got, then it doesn't cost us any extra money for hiring all of that. No, no, I wasn't allowed to do any of that. So with about three weeks to go, she said, look, what I've done is I promised him that you will copy him into every email you send. She said, Tell you what, copy me and as well, which was her way of protecting me. I understand that. But I was seething with anger for the next two weeks, I've kid you not I was awake continuously. And of course, sleep deprivation is the worst form of torture, I was not thinking straight. He'd also we were working going to be working with a new outside source. So outside broadcast provider, and at a brand new location for next 12 months. And I found out in this conversation with rose that he hadn't I hadn't actually been invited to the Reki.
Unknown Speaker 53:05
And I just thought that was right. So that's my punishment is it. He wanted to top down manage everything.
Unknown Speaker 53:11
And then I discovered that of course when he put it's called an RFP request for
Unknown Speaker 53:18
proposal. So it's like requesting a quote, he hadn't even asked me for what the normal microphone compliment cable company might have. Because I've had a list from since 2013 that I've given to his predecessors, and it just handed over to the note didn't ask for that. And so his RFP was inaccurate. So when I started saying to them, right, I need this number, right? No, you can't have that. It's not in the quote. No, you can't. So nearly everything I said for the next two weeks was no, you can't have that. And in the end, I said to the production team, stop asking me questions, just ask him because I'm being overwritten at every point. And it got to the Friday before our first face to face production planning meeting, and I decided, I just can't do this. I spent the day in tears because I've been doing the shows. And so you know, for 15 years. I just thought I can't do this. I'm not going to be top down managed by it by this man. So no. And I found I emailed rose. And she phoned me back straightaway, said Louise, you know, she didn't say you can't do this. She said, Look, is there anything I can do to persuade you to stay? I said, No, I said, it is a case of It's either him or me. And because he's BBC staff, there's no way you're going to get rid of him. Therefore, I have decided I'm going to take my considerable talent away from your programme. I said, That's my ego talking. But now I'm going to do it. It's the only way I'm going to stop myself having a nervous breakdown. I can't I can't handle this. And so when to watch happens, somebody else did it. The sky didn't fall in. And
Unknown Speaker 54:32
I'm now not going to be defined as being the person who was the sound Supervisor of spring watch. It has been a fantastic time in my career. I set up the model. He's working to that model. I actually managed to watch winter watch for the last three days and I actually managed to have a laugh at the end of the so I'm thinking I have now moved on. Ironically, he's not going to be there for the spring watch because he's he doesn't want to be away for five weeks, but I suspect he's planning it and the phone hasn't rung so I'm assuming it's gone now for life
Unknown Speaker 54:59
wishes
Unknown Speaker 55:00
great shame. I'm really pissed off about it, but I'll cope. You know, I'm 61 next birthday. If the series went I mean it's been going for an amazing amount of time. The bubble will burst eventually just like pebble mill did after what 2526 years. It was sad we cried. But it's not life is it? I need to learn to gradually gradually segue perhaps into life in retirement or training other people passing on what I know there are other things I can do that will give me you know, a shot in the arm. So what is most of your work now?
Unknown Speaker 55:33
Sport so athletics, I've been doing the
Unknown Speaker 55:37
FA Cup meetings for football. I mixed final score for the BBC in Salford. I get called up in Salford to do anything from sub mixing for red button and web through to whatever. I've done finals, football focus. All of outside broadcasts really is about sport. I'm doing operation live next which is this child five programme which will be interesting.
Unknown Speaker 56:00
I did beach live and I did one man and his dog last year beach live was a mess, but it might be being recommissioned and that might be me. One man and his dog was a real delight. The country of our production team recorded beautiful director loved my fluffy wedding gags to do can you match the tabloids, please? Which was really nice. And it wasn't one of those occasions where we're parked next to the seaside and I got a picture as saying I can't believe I'm being paid to do this, you know anyway. So other stuff comes along. I'm doing snipped Sheffield, snooker. I'm doing Wimbledon
Unknown Speaker 56:30
in various capacities. So it's mainly sport, but there are delightful people to work with mainly, one is appreciated. And yeah, and I meet people like your good self, which for me is the shot in the arm. It's the people. It's not just the shows.
Unknown Speaker 56:43
And sport is demanding in terms of sound. It is I mean, it's a bit of an anorak. Sport actually are more appreciative of sound than say operation live is going to be they understand the need for certain things and they'll tolerate getting shot. I'm not that I actually prefer to do and need a rig if I possibly can. But they understand why it's got to be there.
Unknown Speaker 57:07
So they are and they put a lot of money into their sport and their sound coverage.
Unknown Speaker 57:14
When it's not sport, you have to fight for every corner. I mean, I did something called Big Cat live. And I remember this was about three years after I was major done in the Maasai Mara in Kenya. And when I got there,
Unknown Speaker 57:26
we wanted to just put there were two Landrovers that gonna go out chasing following all these lines live, they got radio links on board, which got forced out. So I put a stereo pair on the side. I've got a stereo pair on the front. And whilst we're trying to rig these in, everybody, all these lemming cameraman you know, wildlife, we said no, there's no point doing sound. There's no point they were used to going off doing six month projects where they just had the mic on the top of the camera and the dubbing editor would replace it. I said no, no, this is live, you've got to hear what's going on in front of your lens than not. And so the fight we had to have those microphones put on and throughout that show, I think we did eight days broadcasting. I think we got up to 50 Take a listen to just listen to this. And I sat there thinking it was worth the effort. But you have to with production teams who do all this post production you have to fight really hard to just say look, it is worth it. Mike's in bird boxes, you know.
Unknown Speaker 58:18
Okay, that is it from from my point of view. Is there anything that you would like to add that we haven't spoken about? No, I don't think so have been quite most
Unknown Speaker 58:30
it's been a pleasure. Right. Well, thank you very much and thanks for you know, explaining about your your whole career. Thank you. Thank you
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
