BECTU History Project
Interview no: 578
Interviewee: Diane Tammes [IMDb/BFI spelling]
Interviewers: Nicky North, Elaine Burrows – not verbally identified Cameraman: Graham Whittaker[ph] [G]
Date: No date is given for this interview
Duration: 1:23:42
COPYRIGHT: No use may be made of any interview material without the permission of the BECTU History Project (http://www.historyproject.org.uk/). Copyright of interview material is vested in the BECTU History Project (formerly the ACTT History Project) and the right to publish some excerpts may not be allowed.BECTU History Project
Interviewee Interviewers Track No
Diane Tammes
Nicky North, Elaine Burrows 1
1
[Track 1]
So, name please Diane. Diane Tammes.
Diane Tammes.
Date of birth?
Ten four forty-two.
Ten four forty-two. Place of birth?
Welshpool.
Welshpool. Nationality?
British.
Some people, you know, it’s not always the right question. One of the things we have on the database is awards and honours and things like that. Have you had any [inaudible]?
Well, I’m a Fellow of the Royal College of Art, and, I’ve got a BAFTA.
For?
A Channel 4 film Cutting Edge: Casualties.
Ah, OK. And your parents did what? It’s sort of relevant.
[laughs] My father was in the Army, and, Medical Corps, and my mother was a bookbinder.
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Nicky North, Elaine Burrows 1
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Oh.
Mm.
And you went to school...?
I went to school all over the place. [laughs]
Because of being an army child.
A lot of travelling. Yes. And, then eventually I went to school in Cheltenham, was sent back.
You were sent back?
Well from wherever they were.
Oh I see. Not from Cheltenham as a...?
No. [0:01:32]
OK. And after school, and further education, higher education?
I went to Edinburgh, and then to the National Film School.
So you did actually have formal training as a film-maker, at the film school?
Mm.
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Because, I guess, the earlier generations of interviewees didn’t, I mean they trained on the job.
Mm.
So it’s interesting [inaudible] to people who have...
Mm, that’s right, yes.
You worked outside cinema, I mean, obviously for television, but, did you do anything for theatre or...?
I worked as a stills photographer, and worked in the theatre then.
Oh, for, particular companies, or...?
Well, in, in Edinburgh, for Citizens Theatre, Traverse Theatre, Lyceum, Scottish Opera. So it was... And, and Scottish Theatre Ballet. So it was... I mean it was a very rich town for the theatre in Edinburgh just then, because of Jennie Lee, and grants, and everybody was, lots of travelling companies and so on. So, it was great, particularly in the Festivals. Lots of work around. So, mm.
And what about... That was taking stills for, for kind of, display, programmes and all those things[??]?
Yes. Yah.
Production stills.
Mm. Mm. And then they used to, they used to give me my own rehearsal, you know, the lighting was done, then I could just... So I suppose that’s where it started off, was,I just used to walk around and take the photographs. And, you know, just take, get...
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And so I’d get them on the move sort of thing. So that’s why, I suppose I just becameknown for doing that.
And you did all the arts, you did theatre, as you say, theatre, opera, ballet.
Mm.
Any, anything that came your way.
And I worked for artists as well, mm. I worked with Ian Hamilton Finlay, which was great. Mm. So it was lovely.
[0:03:30]
Main areas of work in the theatre[??], I mean, the crafts. I mean I think we’veprobably got you covered[??] on the list here as photographer, director, editor,producer. Anything we’ve missed?
No, I don’t think so.
You didn’t suddenly become a, a lighting operative or something? No. And did you work for a lot of different companies, or, or for just a few major ones, or, or...?
Within film?
Y es.
Within film, I, well I worked for, Granada to start off with, and BBC. Granada was a very forward-thinking company at that time. So, it had a lot of series, likeDisappearing World and, it did do quite a few series, so, I did the Styal series as well, four films in Styal prison. And... I can’t... I think the [inaudible]. And then for the BBC as well, I did quite a few for the BBC.
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Nicky North, Elaine Burrows 1
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So, they’ve been mainly for the larger companies; you haven’t worked for a lot ofsmall companies as well, or...?
Well, I did, I was in one, with other people, and when Channel 4 started we all sort of, broke up and, joined together and applied for money from Channel 4.
[0:05:02]
And, I know you’ve told us before, not in the interview. What was it that got you into the film industry, film business?
It was really, somebody, a friend of mine in, in UCLA, wrote to me and said, ‘Youshould think about applying for the National Film School, because somebody I know, Colin Young, has just gone over there to start it up, and it sounds as though it’s going to be a really interesting thing to do.’ So, I thought, I don’t know, I haven’t done any film. And... And, I suppose, just because of the way I had been taking photographs, and, the fact that now it was all change politically, things were drying up, you know,and grants were going, it was becoming a leaner time, I thought, well, why don’t Itry? So I sent off for an application form and filled it in and sent down some photographs, and they called me down for an interview. So I went off down, got my, had my interview, and they offered me a place. That was it.
Can I just ask, what year was this?
That was the second year, ’71.
So ’71.
Second year of the school, yes.
I remember from a previous conversation that you had a little anecdote about your interview, and the weight[??] [inaudible].
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[laughs] Yes. Ah yes, that’s... Well, my interview was confronted by seven men in easy chairs, looking at me. And, and one person said, ‘I like your snaps.’ [laughs]And... And then somebody else said, ‘How much do you weigh?’ And I thought... By this time I was sort of, rather irritated by the whole thing, and I thought, this isn’t going to work for me at all. I said, ‘I think the question’s irrelevant.’ [laughs] Sorefused to answer. So that... I thought, oh well, that’s it. [laughs] And I, I spoke to Colin afterwards, much, much later, and he said, ‘Oh, nobody took any notice of that. We knew you’d got a place.’ [laughs] So that was very nice of him anyway.
[0:07:15]
Can you just, just talk a bit about the context of those times. Because you were obviously at that point quite, a sort of, a feisty woman.
Mm.
So, you were already engaged with the feminist movement at all?
Well, I, I was... At that time I was in the middle of travelling from Edinburgh down south, and I had lived up in Edinburgh for ten years, and, I suppose, there I had actually had my, had my own studio, which I had started from nothing, and built it up. And so, I, I sort of, did feel that I did, I could do things, and I was paid for my work,and I think that that actually changes one’s attitude towards things if, if one feels one’s work has a value. So I suppose it was that, rather than the fact that I was, at thattime I wasn’t within a movement or anything. I think it was going to the film schoolwhere I actually started talking to people.
So you hadn’t been out marching or, kind of...?
No.
None of, none of those kind of, International Women’s Day or...?
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No, not, not in Scotland. [laughs] Too busy working really. [pause] And... But I just, I just sort of, I suppose I felt a bit on my high horse, you know, I’ve come all theway down here and here I am confronted by this, and there isn’t even one woman onthe interviewing panel. I don’t think it was ever like that again, but for that one itcertainly was. [pause] And, there was a sort of, very laconic view to it all, you know, sort of very laid-back and ‘Oh ha ha, what have we got here? Who’s this little person?’ [laughs] Because I’m five foot three. And I think I had my arm in a sling aswell, because I had cut my hand. Somebody said, ‘Is that permanent?’ So I said, ‘No.’ [laughter] Mm.
So, you, you took the place obviously when it was offered?
Yes. Yes. Yes I did.
And just out of curiosity, did you have, was there a grant involved?
I did have a grant. I had a, I had a further education grant from Edinburgh. So that, that did, mm, help a little.
Yes. What sort of percentage of women against men were there on the student body at that time?
Well I think there were, one woman in the first, in the first intake. There was twenty- five a year. And in my year there were, four.
Four. Can you remember who they were?
Yah.
Oh right, [inaudible]?
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I’ll probably get the number wrong now. First year was Dina Hecht, and my year was Antonia Caccia, Atty Atagnudi[ph-10:25], myself, and Sue Allen[ph].
And did you form a little caucus and, a support network when you were there together?
[pause] To an extent we did, yes. I mean, the thing was that, I think I explained before, the course was whatever one made it. There were no, no lectures or... There was no course basically. You just, you... And... But one was given money, and equipment. So they just said, right, here, off you go, go and make a film. [laughs] Do what you want to do. And of course, which was fine for people who had actually had some experience, but for people who had come from a different background, or, mine was akin but it wasn’t about film, it was quite daunting. So... Because, it’s like that old thing, once you can do anything, there’s nothing to do. I mean what is worth doing? Because, when you actually have some structure and told you can’t do thisand you can’t do that, then of course you can forge against something. But when it’scompletely wide open, it was really difficult. So that, it was quite hard work. I mean, they had people down to talk. [coughing] You had a, I had a tutor budget, which meant I could ask anybody down to school to talk to me, anybody I, I wanted to.
And, I also had a budget for making films. And they had, they had people down to talk at the school, and they had, they showed films. So we had a programme of films you could go and see. And, it was really just immersing oneself in what was around.So, I think that had a tendency to pull people apart, it didn’t really bring peopletogether, because you were trying to find out what you were doing really.
Y es.
So that, that was... [0:12:30]
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What sort of advice did you [inaudible]? You said you could get somebody to talk to you; I mean, was there someone you could go and say, ‘Look, I want to do, ah. Doyou know somebody I could ask?’ or, how did it work?
Yes. There was a head of editing, Roger Crittenden, who was very helpful, he was the second up the school as well. Colin. And, head of camera, Louis Wolfus[ph], and, who actually was terrified of women picking up cameras. He just could not help himself. [laughter] So whenever he, whenever I picked up the camera, he would help. Because he thought, he just couldn’t believe I wasn’t going to drop it.
Y es.
And, and, [laughs] that was a bit daunting. And they had got this special camera called the ACL, which was called the women’s camera, [laughs] which of coursemeant that no woman wanted to use it ever, and wanted to go onto the Arriflex and, use what everybody else was using. So... And, and sort of, it always jammed, and, because it was too, really the magazines were too thin, so, film was constantly catching on the sides.
Mm.
But from, from other, other aspects you see it was fine, because, I was using the same film stock, I knew about film stock, and cameras, lenses and so on. [coughing] So, sothat was fine, I didn’t, I didn’t really need any tuition in that area. It was just actuallyhow to apply it, and how to... I mean for, because, a still photographer has aparticular way of taking photographs, in that, you know, you’re looking for an image,and you take that image and you’re waiting for that image and you take it. Where in film, you are linking images, so you’ve got to let go of it and move on to the next one. Well it’s incredibly hard as a photographer to let go of an image. And I found that really, really hard, it took all of my time to actually be able to move the camera andjust let go of, of some beautiful image I’d got. And other people at the school, and the next year, didn’t ever, couldn’t ever do it. I mean their films were always a series of
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stills, and they couldn’t... But, but it did happen eventually, and now of course I can’t take stills. [laughs] Because it just changes over something in one’s head I thinkabout a way of looking at images and so on. Mm.
[0:15:00]
Could I just ask a question about technology?
Yah.
Because, some of the rationale for women being able to more easily make films, was not just access to the concept that they could, but also the nature of the equipment. And, I mean, you, you were saying that people, women, no one wanted to use the, the lighter cameras.
Mm.
But, it did eventually, they did refine the technology, didn’t they, so that more, it did become more user-friendly for women, but for everybody else, because men didn’t likelumping these great big cameras around either.
No, they did, they did... An example, Jean-Paul Beauviala[sic-Jean-Pierre], the Frenchman, did actually design the Aaton, the new camera, that was the new one that came out. And, up to then, I had been using the Éclair, which sort of dug into one’sshoulder. It was, it was a beautiful camera, is a beautiful camera, but, it had sort of, problems with, the lens mount was made of copper, so that when you took it in andout, if you weren’t careful you could actually just alter the focus. So, so it was, youjust had to make sure all the time that things were checked. So that, that was quite difficult. But the Aaton was a great camera, and in the end I did actually own one, which was quite nice.
Mm.
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Mm, a lovely camera. And that sat on one’s shoulder, so you could actually hold itand walk with it. And... And that I suppose is, is the thing about filming is that, the things you have to think of, all the things you have to hold in your head while you are doing it, automatically, like automatically looking round the frame and making surenothing’s sticking out of anyone’s head, or there’s nothing there that shouldn’t be, or,hairs and, all sorts of things. And also, whether you should be filming. I mean that’sthe other thing. Because when you, when you only have ten minutes film, and thenyou’ve got to change the roll or change it yourself if you don’t have an assistant, itreally concentrates the mind, you think, well actually... So that, the question to ask all the time is, should I be filming this, do I really want this in the film? And then that can make one turn off or keep it, keep it rolling. And it’s learning to make those decisions that’s important as well.
[0:17:28]
You mentioned not having, not having politics but there not being sort of politics involved in what you were doing when you first came back to London. How did you get political?
Oh, I think, well we... We, we were political from the word go really, because we feltwe were in a secondary position and we didn’t want to be there. So, we were... [coughing] When I was taken on at ghoster[??-18:00] Films[??], 1971, Patterns of Discrimination hadn’t been published, so that, as far as the unions were concerned,women could not be accepted in technical jobs. So that, if you applied to the union tobe a camera technician, they sent a letter back and saying, ‘We do not accept womenin these jobs.’
I thought being at the film school automatically...
Yes, well that’s right.
...entitled you to ACTT membership.
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Not, not... Not... It did eventually, yes. I mean that happened whilst I was there.
Mm.
That’s correct, it was that. And that’s, that is how I got my ticket. But it did changewhen Patterns of Discrimination, when the rule was changed anyway. But until that time, I mean I know people who have got those letters, who received them. So thatthat, since 1975, it’s not so long ago. And so, there was a feeling that women couldn’t actually do the job, and, that in fact they shouldn’t be employed in those areas. But it seems extraordinary now, but, but it, it was.
Were you at all involved in Patterns of Discrimination?
Yes. Well I, I knew the people involved. No, it had been done by that time, most of the work had been done. Sarah Benton and, the two Sarahs.
Boston was it?
Boston and Sarah Benton, yes. And... [pause] But I was involved with the union, I was on the Equality Committee, and, so I was involved in that, and I did go out to demonstrations and so on, and film as well, filming at them. I had that old wind-up camera. [laughs] Mm.
[inaudible]. You were the person that made the follow-up to the [inaudible] film.
Yes, that’s right. Yes.[0:20:02]
So, you left the film school when, in...?
1975.
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With your ticket.
With my ticket. I had to go for an interview. [laughs]
With Alan Sapper? Not with Alan Sapper?
No not with Alan Sapper, with the head of the camera section, whose name I can’tremember now. No, gone.
Did they ask you how much you weighed?
No. They, they asked me what I’d do if I had to carry my camera across a ploughed field. I said, ‘I’ll get my assistant to carry it.’ [laughter]
Quite right too. You saying that, it’s interesting that the film school didn’t see anyreason not to take women on to do camera work, despite the fact that they weren’tallowed to get jobs at that stage.
Yah. Well I think, I think that was Colin really. Because Colin had been at UCLA and they had women students out there. In fact he had brought Joan Churchill over for us to meet and talk to. So, so, you know, she was very obviously working.
Sure. And you got involved with the London Women’s Film Group, just...
Yah. Mm.
...by chance or [inaudible-21:19]?
No, because, because, Francine was in the year after me, year three, and, she...
And, Francine...?
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Francine Winham. And Esther was part of it as well.
[inaudible].
Yes. Fran.
So you got involved with them, and that’s what...
Yes.
And they were already...
They were already...
Diane Tammes
Nicky North, Elaine Burrows 1
...already working?
Working, yes. And I, I was, I worked on Rapunzel.
And that was the first, first one you made with the London Women’s Film Group?Yah. Mm.
And that... What kind of experience was that?
Well it was interesting because they had different, they didn’t have one writer, theyhad people writing one section and then, somebody else writing another section. So it was a bit haphazard. But, it, it, I mean, we did it.
Just remind us who was involved in that. I mean who were the other people... I mean, it was, it was Laura?
No not Laura.
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It wasn’t Laura?
No, it wasn’t Laura. It was, Esther and Helen. No. Was it Helen Shapiro? I can’tremember. Sue Shapiro.
Sue.
Sue Shapiro. And, Francine, and Fran, and, Barbara somebody. I can’t remember hersurname.
Have to check that, I can’t remember either.
Mm.
So, who were, were you writing... Who was [inaudible]?
I wasn’t. I... I was shooting.
You were... All the others were...
The others had it worked out between them, because, they, they were actually deciding, I was shooting it and lighting it, and they were doing everything else.
Mm. And was it a happy experience, I mean was it a happy experience, or...?
Well there were tensions. [laughs] I mean there always are on these films, it’s never... When, when one’s trying to do things oneself, people don’t always agree, and, there isn’t an enormous amount of money, and people don’t eat always at thesame, right times, then it can become quite difficult.
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Who was the, was there... So there wasn’t an auteur as such, there wasn’t adirectorial voice?
No. No. No, no.
That was the point, was it?
Well that’s, that is part of the problem, yes. Can’t[??] happen[??-23:56]. But on anyfilm, things become tense, whether you’re, you’ve got a union-backed film or not, because, just because of the very nature of it. I mean, people’s, people are trying toput everything they have into it, and that, sometimes, not everybody pulls in the same direction. [coughing]
[0:24:15]
But for that film, who did you think[??] was the audience, did you, were you allthinking, we’re making this for ourselves, or that, it was made for the women’smovement, or...?
It was made for them.
And, for screening, where, did you, how did you think [inaudible] shown?
Well I think... The Other Cinema was quite strong then you see.
Oh, yes.
And, the Scala.
What, so women’s groups?
Yah.
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Y ah.
Mm. Yah.
Where did the money come from?
I really don’t know where it came from. No, I... I would have thought some of itcame from the BFI.
Oh, from the production board?
I think so. I mean that’s my feeling; I don’t know, I may be completely wrong.
It’s probably one of the few places it would have come from.
Yeah.
[0:25:03]
What I’m interested in [inaudible] years[??], is finding the Granada programme in the middle of things like Riddles of the Sphinx and Angel in the House and Rapunzel.
Yes.
I mean, how did you manage this?
[laughs] What, what do you mean, how did I...?
Well, in the sense of, I mean you, you were on contract to Granada presumably, but you were also making independent films at the same time.
Well, I wasn’t on contract to them.
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You weren’t?
I was... Sorry. I was freelance.
So, this was like, sold to Granada rather than...?
No no no. No. It was a very complicated system then. [laughs]
Ah.
Because, staff crew had, staff employees had priority. Only had people who were freelance if there was no staff person available. If it was a film like, Some Women of Marrakech, they obviously didn’t have anybody on staff who could shoot that film.So the whole crew was freelance. Because they had no women employees. So, I shot it, Melissa Llewelyn-Davies was the director, Elizabeth Fernea was the producer, American, and Marilyn Gaunt did the sound. Because she started as a sound recordist. So she did the sound. And we also had an electrician, Gail[ph], was, she was...
Oh yes. [inaudible].
So, off we went. [0:26:44]
And then you were working independently. [inaudible].
And then, and then I... You see... So, so they only, they only contracted me for three months, however it was, and then... So, so when I had done that, I could... Because, we, I mean, as a camerawoman, I shot the film, I knew what I’d got, but then I handed it all over. So I couldn’t edit it, it wasn’t my responsibility, and nobody wanted me toedit it. So, so I then was free to go and do something else. So I, I mean even, onewasn’t necessarily invited to see the rushes, one had to sort of, say, ‘I’d like to see the
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rushes,’ because otherwise, if you don’t look at your rushes, you never learn anything.So...
So in a sense this was really a one-off, it wasn’t coming... It got your, it got yourself known a little bit, but it wasn’t...
Some Women of Marrakech?
Yes. That... Yah.
Well I did do another one later on. What was that? [pause] I don’t know if it’s inhere. Disappearing World. [pause]
No, it seems to have been, lost.It’s... No, it’s, Asanti Women.Oh God! Of course.
I can’t remember when that was.Well we can track it down later.Which I did in Ghana.
What, shortly after... I mean...
No, no, there’s a gap.
Some years later?
Yes, there’s about a five- or six-year gap.
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[0:28:29]
So after, after Marrakech you went back to doing kind of, the independent...
I went to do drama, I did Angel in the House, which was a BFI-funded film.
Yes. Yes, no that was [inaudible], yes.
Yes. And then Rapunzel. And then I did some BBC, Vital Statistics and Second Skinwere BBC; Brass Tacks, BBC; Amy!.
Were the BBC ones things that you applied to do, or did they come and find you again for them?
Some, some... It just depended. Sometimes they..... [End of Track 1]
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[Track 2]
.....for an interview at the BBC, and so I got onto their books. So I had my own BBC book[??] there[??] [inaudible]. [laughs] And I had to go to look at the rushes with the fom[ph]. [laughs] So it’s all, all... Every, every company had its own way of, way one had to operate, so one had to know exactly what you did, what you did where and to whom you spoke, and, so on. Very complex.
The other, one thing that stood out when I was going through this was the fact thatyou’ve been involved in what appears to be one fiction item, this Playhouse thing, Only A Game. Was that...
I beg your pardon? Oh I, I... Actually...
[inaudible] as a, when you were assistant photographer.
No, I, I... Well Amy! was a drama.
[inaudible], yes that’s true.
Because Prostitute was a drama, and, that’s Tony Garnett. And, Rapunzel’s a drama.Angel in the House was a drama, Riddles of the Sphinx is a drama.
I never think of them as...
No.
It’s very weird, I don’t think of them like that.Yes, but they are. [laughs]
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[inaudible] right. Yes. In my head they have a little category all of their own. [laughs]
[laughs] Yes, suppose they, they have really.
Yes. [inaudible.
But then, on the other hand they’re not straight narrative dramas...
No.
...in the way that you would do something for the BBC or...
No. No.
...Granada, are they? So they are quite, they’re a different kind of film drama.Yes.
And deliberately so obviously.
Riddles[??] [inaudible] all sorts of complicated things.
Yes [inaudible].
I had to build this platform round the tripod, because I had to, had a handle on it, and so I had to turn the handle. And it had to be, each of the pans was a different length, so I had to turn at different... And move around on this... So erected these boards on stones, different heights. [laughs]
Wow.
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So it was... And so I had to walk around, edging round, and then turning the handle and keep it as smooth as possible.
[inaudible].
No, the, the little...
[inaudible] there.
Eating the scrambled egg. It’s my daughter.
[0:02:17]
Oh. [laughter] What... That, that also now raises an interesting question about how you managed having a family and being, I mean presumably working quite odd [inaudible] hours[??]. Or not as, as, you know, not family hours I think.
No.
Did that... How did that work at that time, I mean, childcare, does that come as...?
Well, it was difficult. [laughs]
Difficult, that’s the word.
Yes. I had to have somebody who stayed, lived in, like, when I was away, obviously.
Mm.
So I had, Australian students who wanted to work, come over, and they wanted to... [coughing] sorry, do some studying, and also, they wanted to live with a family. Sothat’s, that’s what I did really. Mm.
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But presumably, that was quite a worry sometimes though.
Mm.
It’s always kind of....
Mm.
Children ill, and, you’re not there and...
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Mm. Well the most difficult was when I was away, when I was actually, not in the country. That was the hardest. Most of the time I was actually in Britain. But thenwhen I, when I wasn’t, it was quite, quite hard. Going away to Marrakech was hard.
Mm. Mm.
Mm.
Yes, before mobile phones and...
Mm.
...and Skype and all those things. Yes.
Also with them being younger.
Yes.
As they get older it becomes less of a priority[??].Mm.
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But you, I mean you decided, you still wanted to, to pursue a career. You didn’tdecide at any point, obviously not, that you wanted to sort of, just back-burn your career until the children were older? That didn’t become an issue?
I don’t, don’t think I could have done really. I think if I had stopped, I’d never have started again. I think, the impetus was there and one had to go with it really. It’s nota thing one can put on hold, filming, I don’t think.
No. [inaudible] actually probably [laughs], but...
Mm.
Y eah.
[0:04:40]
Kind of[??], rephrase the question I didn’t ask you, which is, you obviously in generalworked on documentaries though.
Mm.
Do you miss not working on fiction, would you have liked to do more? More narrative style fiction perhaps.
Well, I, I did enjoy doing fiction. And I... I think if I hadn’t started directing myself,I probably would have done more fiction. But because I then was asked, on a filmthere’s a, I think the director left the production, and, they said, ‘Well would you, would you take over, as you know most of the people, and so on?’ I said, ‘All right.’So I did, and I enjoyed it. And then it meant I could follow the film right through tothe end, and I didn’t have to feel that, I had to leave it halfway through. I quite likethat. So then I changed. And that was, mm... [looking through records] That was...Well I don’t even know if it’s on here, it probably isn’t here, which one it was. [pause] It was... But it was called Just Like Coronation Street.
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Oh that is there.
Oh it is?
1984.
Mm?
1984.
Mm. That was it. Yup.
Oh that [inaudible] producer [inaudible].
Ah. Yes. You got directorial credits, according to the BFI’s index, a year before that,on Broadside.
Oh that’s right, yes. Yes I did. That’s true. Oh, no, it must have... No, I don’t know what it was. I’m sure it was Just Like Coronation Street. But I had, I had, I did inBroadside, direct those, and shoot them. Mm.
[0:06:47]
How did you get work at this time? Your name had become known and, work came more...?
Yah, people phoned up, and...
It was word of mouth and...?
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Yah. Mm. And then, so[??] people I was working with consistently, and so we just devised the next project [laughs], and sort of applied to Channel 4 for the money. Because they recognised certain people as teams, and...
You could be a team without being a production company?
No, you had to be a production company. In order to get money from Channel 4 you had to be a limited company.
Mm.
You couldn’t just get it as an individual.
So did you have... Did you... You didn’t set up your own. So what was...
Mm. Not my own. I set up Reality, which, with Dee Dee Glass and Seona Robertson.
Seona went off to run an archive.
Mm.
Yes. Are there sort of projects that you would like to have done and haven’t yet, or,or, are they going to fall off[??] the, off the lines[??] [inaudible]?
I hope so.
Well I, I was wondering if there was something burning that you’ve been trying to getmade for the last twenty years or something.
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Well I, I... No, I... I started doing a series of arts programmes with Jeremy Isaacs Productions, and I enjoyed that immensely, I’d love to do some more of those. So,hoping that that will happen.
Do you give him, I mean do you make suggestions and say, this, X, Y and Z would make a good, a good subject [inaudible]?
Mm, and he does the same thing too, so, it works really well. Mm.
[0:08:33]
Just, coming back a bit. I mean, obviously, with the arrival of Channel 4, that must have been quite a golden time for, for independent film-makers.
Yah.
And was it, was it for you?
Well I think... [pause] It was, definitely. I mean I think, I think I, I... When I thinkabout the time I’ve made films, I think I was quite lucky in that I started when the sort of, issue of women’s films was just breaking, and they started putting, making films with, shot by women and made by women, and companies were willing to pay for them to be made. So that we did get to go abroad and, and work on quite expensiveproductions, which wouldn’t be commissioned now I don’t think. And, and so we were in the last of that I suppose, the last of the big spenders [laughs], before the unions were mown under. And, I mean although, like everything, there was advantage taken of the system, and in a lot of ways it was a good system because, it was an apprenticeship, people did learn trades and skills by being in the union, whichthey don’t now, and I think it’s tragic that all those skills and the wonderful things thatwere produced, have just gone, because nobody has people to pass it on to. And it must be very hard I think as a young person starting now in the industry, because where do they train? [coughing] All they can do is work as a runner, or else do as I know a lot of people do, work for nothing, hoping to pick things up and... But I think
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it, it was a very good system as it, when it worked, it worked very well. And,nothing’s really replaced it. And I think then, after making those films, then forChannel 4 to start, and open the door out even wider, and to actually be able to have films commissioned from them, was another door opening really. And then, and then,the changeover to tape. So the, [laughs] so, in a way, now it’s come back full circle, with pluses and minuses I think. Mm.
[0:11:13]
[inaudible] OK?
The tape’s just about to run out.
[break in recording]
[0:11:22]
You said you would be interested to talk about going abroad with your equipment.
Yes. Yes. It’s always quite interesting getting to Heathrow with twenty-seven boxes of equipment, and then making sure it gets onto the plane, and that it gets off at theother end. Sometimes it’s easier to get it into the country that one’s going to andmore difficult in others. I remember one time we were going to, it was Marrakech,Morocco, actually, and, the guy said, ‘Where are your men?’ [laughter] ‘Fivewomen. Must have men, with this equipment.’ And he wouldn’t believe that it wasjust us. And impounded it all, and locked it up. So it knocked two days off our filming time, because, he wanted some, we had to have some, I think they have a bond for equipment or something, they wanted a recognition of this bond before we could take it away. So, poor Melissa and Elizabeth who were rushing about trying to get this organised, but they did anyway and we got it out.
[0:12:38]
But, the most, the hairiest time we had was, I don’t know if I should say this, but theGranada doctor had prescribed the wrong malaria pills to two of the crew, when, of the other Disappearing World I did, in Ghana, and so that the director and the PA
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both got, contracted malaria and were really ill. And so... And, a sound assistant had an ectopic pregnancy. [laughs] And she had to be flown out [coughing] in a helicopter. But, we were trying to get out, and, we drove... We were, we were staying actually in Kumasi, and so we had to drive with our equipment and luggage and so on into Accra to get the plane. As we arrived in Accra, and we saw lorries coming towards us with placards and banners all over them, we said, ‘What’s that? What’s that?’ to our driver. And he said, ‘Ah, the airport is on strike.’ [laughs] So we, we pushed on to the airport, got our equipment unloaded, and they said, we can’t go out, ‘You can’t go out tonight, because, they’re threatening to let the tyres down onthe plane, so we’ll have to leave immediately.’ So, we left the equipment behind,with some trepidation, covered by a tarpaulin, and went off to our horrid hotel again. And, it was actually quite late in December and we were trying to get home for Christmas, so everybody was feeling really, quite miserable about not getting back. And then, and of course, poor Claudia was ill and not well at all, or Jane. So, we, the next thing we heard was that might get onto a flight, because there had been some deals done, we might get onto a flight in the early hours of the morning. So, we all got up at something like half past three, and trekked down to the airport, and had, clutching each other and dragging ourselves off to the, to the, into this long queue of people trying to get on. And, we did actually manage to push our way through andget on to the plane. But I didn’t know if the equipment was on, because we couldn’tsee whether it had gone or not. And, so, we were on, and it took off. And, I think we were one of the last planes out. And, we, we couldn’t check until we actually had tocome down for fuel in Azerbaijan whether the equipment was there. Luckily it was.But that was, that was the most hairy situation we’ve been in, and we’ve been in a fewhairy situations I suppose over the years.
[0:15:44]
The most terrifying place I went to I suppose was, one was Northern Ireland, which was very frightening, and the other was Bosnia, two places that I would happily not go back to, they were just so frightening. I’ve never been so frightened in my life.
Did you know it was going to be frightening before you left?
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Well I thought Bosnia probably was going to be, and, you really did feel a sort of sense of lawlessness, and[??], you didn’t know what was going to happen next at all.Anything could happen. And I haven’t, I haven’t really felt like that before, I think,we’d always had minders around, people looking after us wherever we were. We’vebeen a few, a few places, the PLO and people, and, the UN had looked after us very very well, but there were just these two areas which felt, you know...
What were you doing in [inaudible]? I mean, were you there making a [inaudible]?
I was making a film for the BBC [coughing], about adult education in Ireland. But I mean, it was, it was... I mean, there were kids there from the streets and everything and, just moving about, it was just, hairy times. And then, we were charged by the British Army believe it or not [laughs], with fixed bayonets. That was terrifying too,because you suddenly realise it’s your own army charging at you.
Friendly bayonets.
Yes. So the director saying ‘It’s the BBC!’ didn’t really cut much ice. [laughs]
No.
And I was making a film in Bosnia, again for the BBC, that did, did go out and we didget footage for that, but, I wouldn’t ever go back there again.
You didn’t, obviously you didn’t realise it was going to be that hairy?
No. No.
You had no...
No. Didn’t. No, we, we got into Bihać and, all over the place. Had to go throughseven Serb checkpoints, and the guys[??] before we went said, ‘Just think of the most
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pleasant place that you really know, because they’ll be able to sense it. Just relax andthink of the nicest thing you possibly can, and go through it and you’ll get through. Don’t tense, don’t think of, it’s going to be unpleasant.’ And that’s, that’s what wedid. We did, we did get through.
It sounds as though you need sort of meditation training before doing something like that, to get yourself through the [inaudible].
[laughs] Yes.
[0:18:30]
What was it like making movies in Styal? Because [inaudible], women’s prison kind of things. A big series, four-part [inaud] film.
Yes.
Talking about hairy places to be [inaudible].
Mm. I think the saddest thing about that was, I had seen, I saw a film much later, about two or three years ago, which had also been made in Styal, and nothing seemed to have changed at all. And that was, that was very frightening. The saddest thingabout it really is that, people are there who shouldn’t be in prison, they just shouldn’t be in prison, they haven’t done... They’ve got there through silly, silly events,shoplifting and, continued to shoplift and so the sentences built up and built up. And, obviously got psychological and social problems that should not be dealt with by putting those women in prison, separated from their children. I mean, all the people I saw there, so few had done anything that seemed to me to warrant being shut up. There were some, there were murderers there and, people who obviously had done things, gun-runners and, people who had done pretty horrid things, but, they were so few really compared to the misery of the women who really had, I didn’t feel were being punished for anything that was so terrible.
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Mm. But making a series of that size, presumably you have more of a relationship with the subject than you would dashing in and out.
Yes.
So did you get to know the women?
Yes, we did. Yes, mm.
Anyone... I mean, any particular stories you remember?
Well, again, another woman had her, had just had a baby, tiny, tiny baby, and, she was allowed to keep her baby in prison but she could only keep it for a short time. And, she was finding that really really difficult, very difficult. [pause] Another girl was just, who wanted to go... Her father had died while she was in prison, and the socialworker said, ‘Oh, she won’t mind not seeing him, you know, she doesn’t feel anything,’ really dismissively. And, we had seen her crying and really upset, and,really wanting to see her father, and just, not wanting to show it in front of somebody, that she missed seeing, not wanting to reveal it, but actually revealing it to us. [coughing] Things like that were...
Did you have similar sort of experiences on Police? Another big series.
Yes. Mm. That was a whole year we did, Thames Valley Police. [pause] Yes. I mean it is a different experience, going every day, and actually, following people around and, [coughing] getting to know them quite well.
Mm.
Mm. I... I don’t think I found anybody on that series I particularly liked somehow[laughs], unfortunately. I mean I, I’m surprised I didn’t, but I didn’t. And, I think they do a very very tough job, but, and, but they do tend to stick to their own, you
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know, they live together, they play together, they are together. So... Somebody saidit’s like the other side of the coin, so if you see the... I mean you sometimes wonder which is the one in handcuffs. [laughter]
But in either case with those two, I mean, people say that a sort of, fly-on-the-wall camera can be ignored. Did you feel that your subjects were beginning not to see you at a certain point, or...?
I think, yes, I think after a point, when something is quite dramatic, people just forget,and they’re into their own, expressing themselves and, putting over what they’refeeling and thinking is more important to them than actually, somebody around filming.
Mm.
So... And it’s also keeping quiet and in the background and trying not to move aroundtoo much, so...
Mm.
[pause] I think that, I think that does work. I don’t know, because I, I haven’t experienced it myself. But I, I do, people do say that, after I’ve been filming, ‘I forgot you were there.’
Yes. Sometimes you have the impression that people are actually playing up to the camera.
Mm.
That that’s not been your[??] experience?
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Well, if, if one feels that they’re doing that, I usually just switch off. And then I thinkthey, don’t bother to do it. Even in schools, I did a whole series of a school, and thechildren don’t, forget. Just used to you being there, and just carry on. Mm. At firstof all they’re really... But after we’ve sat there for a bit...
[0:24:11]
I was just, I was quite curious, because, the, I think it was probably the family, the Watsons documentary which was considered to be the first fly-on-the-wall.
Mm.
And I think that was late Seventies.
Mm.
So yours were quite soon after that, and...
Mm.
It was in fact a whole, the beginnings of a whole new genre.
Mm. Well we had been doing it before that. [laughs]
Yes, but, kind of, but for mainstream television though.
Mm.
I mean I just, that, because the family is identified in many ways [inaudible], just because it was an extensive series.
Mm.
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Were you, were you aware of that as a, I mean did that influence you at all, or was itjust, something you didn’t register?
Well I think that, in a way the, I think the way that the family were shot is probablynot as purist as we’d be to do it. I mean, it had angles all over the place and so on. We tend to move at, try not to intrude on what people are doing with odd angles and, stand on the table and stuff like that. And so, it was just another way of doing it I think as far as we were concerned. So I was looking at it more as a contrast and, interested to see what they did and what we would do.
And you wanting to do it differently?
I think so, yes. Mm.
Because you’re...
Because I, I think he is quite intrusive, Paul. He doesn’t sort of... He is sort of rightin the middle of it, he doesn’t hold back.
Yes, no, he likes [audible] part of...
Yes.
Almost another subject.
Mm.
In many ways not unlike Nick Broomfield I think, has become more and more, more grounded in his documentaries hasn’t he?
Mm.
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But you, you prefer to keep well, well to the sidelines.
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Mm. I think so. Because it’s not really my story, it’s somebody else’s story, and I’mtrying to reveal that story and, relationships between people around me, and not, Idon’t particularly want to be part of it myself. It’s not really my story.
Even though I think sometimes people [inaudible] Watson[??-26:35] and, they want,they, they make things happen, don’t they, by their, their physical presence, but you, you don’t want to do that; you want to just see what unfolds.
Well obviously any film crew in a room with a group of people, however unobtrusive they are, is going to change what’s going on, it would be silly to say it wouldn’t.
Mm.
But, I suppose the difference is that I don’t want to dominate it really, I want to hold back a bit and try and let whatever’s happening reveal itself, rather than imposing anything on them.
[0:27:15]
Well do you want to say something about having your own company, Reality TV?
Well... [coughing]
How did you start[??] to get permission[??] [inaudible]?
We started... When, when Channel 4 began, people who had worked for, as independents for the companies, then started forming themselves into smallcompanies. Because it wasn’t possible to apply for money for productions from Channel 4 unless one was a limited company. So, it’s very easy to buy a company offthe shelf. And, so, we started to do that. I was in two companies, one, Partners in Production, and the other was Reality Productions, for different films. And, it was
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just more convenient to do that, because, if one was working with people within that company, it obviously made sense to apply so that the money could go through the company and so on, so on. And it all had to be monitored, and there had to be budgets done, and, all checked out properly. [laughs]
[End of Track 2]
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[Track 3]
So it wasn’t possible to go off and buy tractors and whatever did happen in the beginning. [laughs] Villas abroad.
Mm.
So that, that made a big difference I think, Channel 4, because it actually brought a whole new load of new people into the industry, who maybe wouldn’t have had theopportunity before to direct and to shoot films. And, that changed the way, I think, the sort of programmes that were on television, and the approach to them. And I think, Jeremy was very, Jeremy Isaacs, was very instrumental in that in that he did give people a chance, and would back things, and, in the way that in ITV and BBC people had been willing to back things then, so that there was a, a very rich source of programmes, and people weren’t afraid to stand by what they had, what they haddone. Sometimes things went wrong, but, usually they were good programmes, andthe audiences really appreciated them. And I think, perhaps sort of, there isn’t thatsame feeling today. I mean, it is much harder to actually find someone to stand up foryour programme, particularly if it’s controversial, and to actually not play safe and, take a chance. It’s perhaps easier to say, oh well, do I really want to put my hand inthe fire over this, or just take the safer course?
Y es.
Which is, which is a shame, because it has watered down what was a very vibrant industry I think, in all sorts of ways. [coughing] I mean of course the big changeover from film to tape also made a lot of changes, because, I think, film costs about 30p a minute to run, and tape costs 3p. But, that’s depending again on how much you’ve shot. Whereas[??] if you’ve shot an enormous amount of tape and you haven’t actually thought about how you’re going to structure it, then you will incur costs inthe editing, and, perhaps find yourself back at square one, not really having saved a lot at all. And I think, it is possible now for anyone to pick up a camera and shoot, but
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I think... Oh I’m going to cough again. Sorry. [coughing] I think that, that the cameras now are easy, you can pick up a camera and shoot, but if you want to use a professional camera, I think, you don’t use one of the, PD160, you go for a Sony, and,digital camera, and that isn’t something that everyone can shoot with, and you, it is very similar to a professional film camera. And, so I think in some ways we’ve comefull circle.
Y es.
Now it is possible to pick up a camera and shoot; it doesn’t mean you’ve got a good film. Just because you’ve got a lot of footage doesn’t mean there’s a movie there.
No. Even if there is, you can’t guarantee that you’re going to find somewhere to showit.
No, that’s true as well.
It’s part of that kind of, type.
Yes.
You were talking about people backing films.
Yes.
If you get it wrong, somebody will stand up for you and say, ‘Yes, but...’
Right. Yes.
Whereas now it’s, ‘Oh, well let’s not show it just in case.’
Yes, that’s true.
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Mm.
Mm.
[0:04:09]
I also thought what you would, when you were talking just now about small companies. I mean there are very few small production companies now.
Yes.
They’ve all been gobbled up in [inaudible], which I would imagine, I mean, do you think those have actually impacted on what gets made and how it gets made?
I do think so, yes. I think that, the work that Channel 4 and BBC used to do are nowbeing done by the big independents, so they’re actually filtering the material, and, Idon’t think that sending in a sheet of paper and hoping your ideas are going to getmade, works. I think you’ve got to, well you’ve got to go in and sell it and do a big production. And also you’ve got to find, make sure you retain the copyright, because what was happening was, things were getting sent in and somebody else was making it. [coughing] So, there’s no, there’s no rules really any more, no rules, I mean, anything, anything goes. So it seems as though, I think to actually get anything,you’ve got to have a lot of backing, I mean raising the money and, or, actually have the ear of somebody who has a big production company and is going to allow you to show your, to go with your idea.
[0:05:55]
Do you think that the proliferation of channels, like the arts channel, like all the sortof, the specialist broadcasters if you like, has made any difference to what’s shown or what’s made or, whether it’s bad?
[pause]
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It seems that there’s more opportunity for different kinds of things to be shown, but itdoesn’t feel to me as though it’s actually, it’s just they’re spread out rather than allon the BBC or...
Yes. Well everybody wants something made for nothing. I mean the sort of budgetsthat I was lucky enough to have when I started, just, don’t, don’t materialise any more, you know, they’ve sort of, gone forever. And, what seems to happen is that, adirector is shooting, writing, producing, booking, doing everything themselves, and, for very little money. Which to me is to me is not really a way to make films.
Mm.
Agony, I imagine, really. Very tough.
Yes. But your experiences with the arts channel are not tough?
Well, they’re, they’re, they don’t pay. I mean, one has to do it for love really, making films. I mean they don’t pay. The arts channels don’t pay, they want to do it quite cheaply, they don’t have the money. I, I don’t know where one, how people begin to work. I mean I suppose they, they do it on YouTube, I mean that seems to be where people start doing things, and try things out.
Mm.
Certainly, there’s nowhere else for people to go to for, for docs, I suppose, as well,who take things.
Mm.
It’s quite bleak.
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Yes. I was looking again at sort of, the, the many many sponsors, like, [inaudible] or the Arts Council in the Seventies and Eighties which...
Mm.
It’s so different.
Mm. Yes there’s no BFI production board. No Arts Council. Because that really was very helpful to be in, to start things off and just make a film, and then, had that film, and if it was a success then you could go on and try something else. Mm.
[0:08:32]
If your, say, your granddaughter decided she wanted to be a film-maker, would you, would you stamp on that ambition from a great height, or...?
[laughs] No, I wouldn’t stamp on it, but I would look into what the possibilities were quite carefully I think. You see, because I’m just not sure what the possibilities arenow, I don’t think there are many though from what I hear from people. And people have had bad experiences and, want to give up I think. I haven’t quite reached thatyet, but I mean I do know people who have had very tough times. Because I think,everybody mixes into it now, that’s the difference as well, is that you, one doesn’thave the trust to just get on and make the programme. Everybody wants to comment on it, everybody wants to have a view on it. So that, there’s constantly people looking and giving notes and saying, ‘Take this out, take that out,’ until in the end you just wonder what’s left of the original idea.
Any of these you’re particularly proud of?
[pause] I’ve enjoyed making a lot of them, and, I was quite pleased with, [pause –looking at records] a film that I got the award for, Casualties. Worked quite well I think. [pause] And Dispossessed. They both worked quite well.
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Mm. Yes, those sort of series are disappearing as well.
Diane Tammes
Nicky North, Elaine Burrows 3
Yes. I mean Disappearing World was an extraordinary series actually if you think about, you were being sent off into the, the wilds really, with film stock and... I remember waking up [inaudible], 30,000 feet of film I took with me, 30,000 feet of film.
[inaudible] exposed.
[laughs] And then seeing, think, oh golly, is it scratched? [laughter]
[inaudible] water[??] and [inaudible] please[??]. [laughter]
You send it all back again and think, oh... [laughs]
Yes, because presumably you didn’t get to see any of it before you, you...
No.
Took your film, sent it back, and then...
I think we sent a test back, just to check that the camera was working properly and, so we sent a test back and got a note saying, fine, and off we went and shot the rest of it. [laughs]
And pray.
And then it was piling up, you know, sort of, ganged up.
[0:11:37]
Why were you particularly pleased with Casualties, for which you got the BAFTA in, when was that, ’91?
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Well I, I think, things happened in it that were, were just... I don’t know whether...We just, I had to decide on filming things, [coughing] whether they were going to develop or not. And... Because there’s so much going on in a casualty department.Just the opening of the film, this boy had been brought in, looked quite interesting, and, [inaudible], try and[??] [inaudible]. One of the first things we had filmed. Andthe doctor said to him, ‘Tell me now,’ Malcolm or something, ‘why was it that you were walking stark naked down Homerton High Street this morning?’ [laughs]
‘What was it made you do that?’ And he said, ‘Well it was a protest,’ or something,and, he had just... [laughs] It went on. But I mean, you couldn’t ask somebody tosay that really, it was just, such a, a shock. [laughs] And he had been... He did it as a protest against his life and what was happening to him and so and so. And then, in that film, another thing that happened was, this other guy was brought in with a bang on the head. And, he was just completely, I don’t know what he had taken, but hewas just completely... And just kept moving about. And he just became a focus of the film as well. So it was one of those things where I looked for things and I’ddecide, made decisions, which actually worked out for the film. And, other films, you choose something and it doesn’t go anywhere in the films, but that just sort of, worked really.
Was it something that you set up, this one, with the Homerton Hospital presumably?
Yes, it was Homerton Hospital. It was something that I had done with, we did a co- production company for it. Yes, they had agreed actually for us to go in there, Homerton Hospital, mm, casualty department.
No, I was wondering whether it was you who set it up, or whether you were asked to do it, which way round that was.
It was a joint thing.
Yes, just happened.
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Interviewee Interviewers Track No
Diane Tammes
Nicky North, Elaine Burrows 3
46
Mm.
Y es.
Mm. [pause] We had to go round separate, different hospitals and chat to them, and,try and persuade them to say, OK. And just explain how we, wouldn’t coerceanybody and we, people would have to have permission, and, people would have to sign the agreement, and all of that really.
Because there has been a lot of, you know, there were lots of places which got bad press and, presumably you had to be quite persuasive to, to get that permission.
Yes.
To say it wasn’t going to be like that. You weren’t going to diss them and...
No. That’s right. Had to... [pause] I don’t think we did, I think they came out of itquite well.
And the NHS presumably.
Well... Mm.
And then you suddenly became a subject, issues of women’s studies.
[laughs] Yes, I don’t know what that was. [laughs]
Not anything I remember seeing[??-15:20].
I can’t remember what it was or...
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Diane Tammes
Nicky North, Elaine Burrows 3
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[inaudible].
Yes it does, doesn’t it.
Cook Island, Cook Islands Quilting. I don’t know what it was.
No, I’m not sure [inaudible]. You don’t remember this as a highlight of your career?[laughs]
[laughs] No.
[pause]
[0:15:44]
So, were there any other real highlights that you would kind of, apart from Casualties and, of the early, of the early material in particular that you particular remember[??]?
Well I, I really enjoyed doing Riddles actually, I loved working with Peter and Laura. That was great, really, really nice. It was always a good, really good atmosphere on their films. And I, I loved working with them. [pause] It was always, it was always... I mean Riddles was particularly complex, but, we, we just sort of, had to take the area and set it all up and, make sure it worked and...
Did you understand what you were doing? [laughter] I mean, because it is quite a difficult... I mean it was always perceived as quite a difficult film.
It is a difficult film. [laughs] I didn’t always know what it was doing, no.
Right. Or why you were doing it as well[??].
[laughs] Why I was doing it.
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Diane Tammes
Nicky North, Elaine Burrows 3
48
Mm. But that was OK, you didn’t feel you were, you didn’t...?
Well, I trusted them really I suppose, so I, I felt that, all would be revealed. [laughs]
Oh yes.
Yes. Some of us are still waiting I’m afraid.
Yes, well...
Slightly.
Why was it so pleasurable working with Peter and Laura? If that’s not too sensitive aquestion.
No, but they had, they had such a conviction about what they were doing, and, they actually did everything to the best possible degree that they could to make it just as they wanted it, and as right as it could be. And, and it was, it was actually quite nice to actually be able to get something that they, which they wanted, and said, ‘Yes, that’s what, that’s fine, that’s great, that’s what we want.’ And to get that, and do it.It’s actually quite satisfying.
Mm.
And, it was, it was quite complex. And as you say as well, I didn’t always know whyI was doing it, but, I really enjoyed it.
[0:18:11]
One thing that I’m curious about is that, I mean so many television directors really ache to become film directors, I mean film, kind of, in a cinema, I mean... So you had actually started early on in your career with, with films that were going to be shown
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Diane Tammes
Nicky North, Elaine Burrows 3
49
in a cinema, but then, you went into television and, kind of never came out of it. Was that your choice, or did you at some point think, I would really, really like to make a, a big 35mm high-budget movie?
[laughs] I did, I did think that, but I think, probably the opportunity wasn’t there, or Iwas involved with something else and, and didn’t find the space to do it. You can see,I’ve been pretty busy.
Yes, no, you have.
And I, I enjoyed making the films. I sort of, started doing the films with Jeremy, and, I made this series of films about artists, which were great, really enjoyed doing that. And I was also making a film with Thomas Heatherwick, which was interesting too.He’s a designer. And, called The Blue Carpet up in, where was it? Newcastle. So that was good.
And those are still ongoing, are they, those...?
No they’re done now, all finished.
All finished.
Mm. Yes. [0:19:50]
Next project?
[laughs] Well, I don’t think I’ll be doing the 35mm epic somehow. [laughter] I’m afraid that has passed me by. But I, I’m hopeful of doing another, another series of art, about the artists.
Great.
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Interviewee Interviewers Track No
Diane Tammes
Nicky North, Elaine Burrows 3
50
Yah.
Anything else?
No, I’m... No, I’ve, I’m questioned out.
Well, OK. Well, I think in that case, we’ll say.....[0:20:28 – silent to end of track]
[End of Track 3]
[End of Interview]
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Interviewee Interviewers Track No
Diane Tammes
Nicky North, Elaine Burrows 3
51