Alan Lawson 0:01
The copyright of this recording is vested in the BECTUhistory project. Raymon Morse known professionally as Ramos, actor, set designer, model maker, makeup artist, a man of many talents. Interviewer Alan Lawson, recorded on the 26th of August 1993.Side one.Right here we go.First.Ray when and where were you born?
Ray Morse 0:41
I was born in a public house called the Carlton arms within the Mile End road, I think it's still there was when you go up to Victoria, you go across one of those iron bridges. If you look down in the street, you can see this wretched pub on the corner of the street. Still there?
Alan Lawson 1:03
have you been back,
Ray Morse 1:04
no, no, never been back. However,
Alan Lawson 1:07
what about schooling
Ray Morse 1:10
my people who have owned a string of pubs, about 14 of them. So as shifted from one school to another, I never really had any education. All we had in my days was this slate, slate pencil and a piece of wet rag and one exercise book. That was it. I left school when I was 14. never really had any education. Now, if your parents went to went off to Canada in
Alan Lawson 1:40
Now, if your parents went to went off to Canada in 1919 Why was that?
Ray Morse 1:43
Well, it was after the First World War. We lost a lot of money in over the air raids and bad business. And we say that my father was you know, a soldier and all that sort of thing. And we got that out and went to Canada. I was about eight years old. I remember all the air raids and that sort of thing. We had the pub called the Finsbury Park Hotel in those days. remembers the little boy playing on the biliard room roof. So the first daylight air raid on London was the formation of Gotha aircraft coming over to a big V shaped formation making a funny humming noise. bombing raid, you know, in daylight feed, you know. And our first saw Zappelins brought down one a Cuffley one at Potters Bar , and one at Billericay you saw search lights on the wall all lit up. You saw them burst out in flame, you saw the people dropping out with their clothes all on fire. And I was only about eight years old, you know, terrific sight.
Alan Lawson 2:55
Now when you went to Canada, what what did you get to school?
Ray Morse 2:59
Yes. What what happened there, because we had to start all over again, you know, take a bit of money out and start all over again. And we invested in a timber mill. And we we had 1000 acres of cedar wood trees in virgin land up in the mountains. There's nothing out there at all any mountain lions and bears and wildlife snakes and stuff like that. And the nearest school was two miles away. And as children, we had to go down the mountain and walk the rest of the way to school, the school was just a sort of hut on stilts, have to be on stilts, because when the snow melted on the mountain, it flooded over the low land just three schools on stilts to keep it out of water. And to get into the classroom, we had to go up a ladder and through a trapdoor into the classroom. And the teacher was only a 19 year old girl and that was my first education. Really. Anyway, the the timber mill went bust in the end and we moved into Vancouver proper, you know, the city of Vancouver. And then my grandmother came out. And she has quite a bit of money and she invested in a hotel. And from then on, we eventually owned three hotels in the city. That was you know, at the start of something big that he had been well,
Alan Lawson 4:42
when the thing I can't understand actually is where did your artistic skills come? Come when did that start
Ray Morse 4:49
our way when I was a child, I was always drawing things, you know, sometimes rude things and that sort of thing. Children do and They're always got a paint box in my Christmas stocking in you know those the paint Box of Crayons or something right now they're always drawing and painting. Even at school I was always the best one in the class at drawing. Stop right here in going again Yes.
Alan Lawson 5:24
Oh my God wasn't that wasn't a nice the school is up in the mountains this must have been in
Ray Morse 5:30
Vancouver I went to proper school in Vancouver called Dawson school and that I really, really learned quite well at Dawson's school very nice school, but I left at 14 and I got a job selling papers, you know, because I had a crush on Gloria Swanson as a schoolboy I used to earn money, selling papers to get the money to go into the cinema to see Gloria Swanson. She was one of the bathing beauties in the Max Senate. Bathing beauty thing. And I followed her career all through my life, you know, eventually became her makeup man, you know?
Alan Lawson 6:12
And then then he also became a child actor. How did that How did that come about?
Ray Morse 6:19
I used to have an uncle that lived out there was almost an American, you know, and he worked on on films. You know, in the early days, it was sort of an odd jobs man is to carry the camera about and do bits of crowd work and stuff like that. Because in those days, we used to get about two months. vacations we called it from school. And he used to take me down to Los Angeles and get me little jobs, on films on on the movies, you know, for silent it was before electric light we didn't even have electric light? Or, or was this wasn't a studio, it was a field, which we called the lot. It was just a row of outdoor stages, rather like a funfair you know, a cowboy set an indoor dining room set in a shop set in a butcher shop or set and that sort of thing. You know,
Alan Lawson 7:14
any remember any of the films you were in?
Ray Morse 7:17
Oh, yeah, we're used to make about three a day really easy. I think it was that it didn't cost $8 million to make in three years to produce, you know, it's like, well, three a day. Theyb only lasted about three minutes you see. And you know, cops chasing naughty boys and things like that silly things that no scripts is to make them up with who went too long. You say?
Alan Lawson 7:44
Can you remember the name of the company?
Ray Morse 7:46
Oh, there wasn't any company. There was this peole that had a camera and hired the set for the day, you know, went in and shot a film and sold it to somebody you know. I can only remember one was was I had to come downstairs with the dog right to open the door quietly without disturbing mother in the kitchen and sneak out with the dog and go to the butcher shop. And I was supposed to get some get some meat or something while I was in the shop. sausages hanging down off the butcher's slab you say the dog gets hold of the. First sausage, you see and pulls it down. He runs out the shop where they say runs out the road with this string of sausages goes after run out for him. And then the butcher runs after me with his meat cleaver. And then the village cop. He runs after me then all the rest of the population they ran out of the village after me. He keeps running around around all we do is running around around this set by as we run around we keep changing hats to make it look like different people you see. Well that was the film it lasted about three minutes. That was it. But the whole novelty in in films in those days was the fact that people moved. You didn't have to have a plot or anything like that just as long as you move that was it.
Alan Lawson 9:15
Any idea how many you made? It's
Ray Morse 9:17
all dozens of labour fellows presumably, we might about I was about three days three or three a day and we got $5 for the lot.
Alan Lawson 9:37
Then then you went back obviously back to Vancouver carry on
Ray Morse 9:41
there No. But after that I got a proper job as as the art world commercial art, Oh yesI got a job with commercial artist at Vancouver commercial. Now, I was just turned 14
Alan Lawson 10:00
What kind of work were you doing?
Ray Morse 10:01
Well, I hated it actually, because they used to give me all the lettering to do No, I hated doing lettering because it was boring looking at lettering, doing lettering, there's nothing creative about it. I just hated that. So I left after a while. And my dad thought I was very good at drawing and that sort of things. And he thought I ought to have a bit of tuition, you see. So he sent me to a private art school a man an artist, you know, gave for sort of private lessons. And he had about 20 pupils is the end of this. School is saying when started drawing I found out that I could paint better than he could just see. So he got me painting all these sketches you see. Go on, keep on ainting . These are so good. I like to show your sketches to the other pupils, you know, to encourage them. You see, first what I did, I kept painting these pictures. And when I asked for them he says, Oh, well, I'd like to keep them for a while and show the other pupils. And they kept disappearing And I never got any of the sketches back. He said, then one day says, I'm going to new Westminister as the next town to Vancouver BC I'm going down on businesses. He says Would you like to come for the ride would be a nice day out for you see? I says Oh yes, I'd like to come and see. So we went to New Westminister park the car along the Fraser River so is the Fraser River they say? he parked the car and he says I'm going off their own business. You see. He says you have a nice day walking around the town Nick doing a bit of exploring. And I'll meet you here at five o'clock and we'll go back to Vancouver you see so off he went. And off I went to explore the town is the of course just I was interested in all the new shops to see and I found a lovely art shop. They're all lovely all lovely paints and brushes and things that that what do you think it was all my pictures? He had been selling them all this time? No wonder I didn't get them back. It is selling all my paintings. Because I left left the art school immediately you know, never went back.
Then Then you returned to the UK in 24 1924. Yes, aged 17.
Alan Lawson 12:32
You deal with this?
Ray Morse 12:34
What do I do with this stuff?
Alan Lawson 12:38
You save so much happened before you came back to England? What did you mean?
Ray Morse 12:43
Well, I mean, going out there went out on the old Empress of France that have been a troop ship and all the rest of it and we struck an iceberg and got lost in the fog and ripped out 22 portholes Wireless was reported missing and all that kind of stuff, you know, was living on Machnihie stew to that the army had left behind in tins and all that kind of stuff in here. But we eventually landed in St John's, New Brunswick. And because we have to cross the prairies to go from New John's St. John's to Vancouver. That was almost 14 days journey by rail in those days. Well, there was a terrible train accident. My mother was blonde in those days and had a Musquash coat. And everybody knew around the boat. You see this was the boat train. And it was this terrible accident. The train caught fire and everything. It was reported in the papers that my mother has been killed because they recognise the blond hair and the Musquash coat . Fortunately , we got on the CPR, not the Grand National there wasn't my mother's fault . So we did get there safely. But we did cross the prairies and it took the 14 days we went all through the Rockies and met which was a wonderful site. We stopped at Winnipeg, and did some shopping on the station. And it was Christmas time. And we bought a steak and a Christmas pudding. And we cooked Christmas dinner on the train because in those days each train had a kitchen at the back of the train and a negro servant that kept the stove going woodstove and you could cook a meal and there's little tables that slid slid out. In a little compartment and he could sit down have a proper meal. That's what we did. We had a Christmas dinner on the train. Going through the Rockies. It's lovely
Alan Lawson 15:00
Now let's get back to it come back to England.
Ray Morse 15:03
Yeah, right.
Alan Lawson 15:05
So when you came back to England, what did you do? When
Ray Morse 15:09
I came back to England my grandmother came back to see going back on a ship called the meta gamma. And she bought a pub at Loughton in Essex, called the crown hotel, which is very old hotel is Dick Turpin had slept there Anyway, lovely old place you'd have a most wonderful garden with beautiful Victoria plum trees there spent a lot of time there. And that's where I first took up music because she bought me a beautiful Bechstein Piano Piano. And we used to get all the latest piano rolls you know, the dance music that sort of thing. And she bought me a saxophone she thinks she was nuts about saxophones So she bought me when I learned to play it. And in the evenings I used to entertain the customers in the greenroom by playing the piano with my feet and the saxophone and at the same time. That was my first introduction to music as long before electronic pianos and electronic organs is right and after that I went back to London and became a commercial artist again at Astor house in the strand but I only stuck that for three months because the pay payment pay the pay was very bad.
Alan Lawson 16:44
Remember the company
Ray Morse 16:48
just called Astor House
Alan Lawson 16:58
I see on your your kind of List of big studios you worked in
flicker films
dealing with
what looks like a film
Ray Morse 17:12
Flicker films. Well, it was an old sort of glass place almost like a greenhouse. I had no lights saved to depend on the sun, you know, coming through the glass. And I used to make those things that pay for things that you flicked the drawer and used to make them into the exercise book if I needed to make litle matchstick men and my grandmother used to live at Ealing and this studio was at Ealing to go in there sometimes it was empty and asked to wander around and is to see these flicker things lying about on the bonfires all sorts of dummies and things lying about anyway. Somebody rented it and cleaned it up a bit and we made a film in here and I got a little job in there. And we made a film in Jack Buchanan's leading lady .
Alan Lawson 18:15
Stop. Yeah. What What kind of job did you do on that? Do you remember?
Ray Morse 18:21
I did the makeup on?
Alan Lawson 18:23
That's the first time you did make up
Ray Morse 18:25
Oh, no. You don't make up with Oh yeah. Well, I have to tell you how to start to do makeup. Because before that I was on the stage I used to do the piece called prologues for the Astoria circuit, I worked on all the greatest stories cinemas . And the days of the big pictures when they had a prologue, a live prologue on the stage. Prologue was a thing where you took a scene from the picture. And you made up like the star and wore the same clothes in the picture near you. You did the scene from the picture. I'm not doing this right.
Alan Lawson 19:19
But they were saying and they did they speak the actors actors do they speak on this island
Ray Morse 19:23
no silent?
Alan Lawson 19:24
Yes. But I mean yes. I mean, on the in the prologue did they speak
Ray Morse 19:28
No, no, no, no, he just acts as a scene from from the film in the same clothes in the same makeup. And then the screen would come down and show the same scene. Otherwise it would fade from the prologue into the into the picture if you know what I mean. When anyway, we used to do these I did this for about three years we didthe Plaza and all the differentAstorias and then somebody from Gainsborough for a talent scout saw me doing all these fantastic makeups for something one way we got to be for men too and another week I'll be somebody else so me doing all these fantastic makeups he approached me and said would I like to come to Gainsborough's and help out with the makeup you see because up to them and they didn't have any English make upman then it German makeup men from the Leitner? company is he said yes. How would you say sir? went to Gainsborough's and was under a German makeup man called Mr. Panzer. And from then on I became the first English makeup man and he wrote the films
Alan Lawson 20:51
he worked on
Ray Morse 20:53
Jack's The boy was I don't remember what the others Lot of them didn't have names at the time they're just numbers on clapper board you know, he didn't don't know the actual name of the film until it comes out in a but worked at every studio in England actually.
Alan Lawson 21:14
Yes.
These are all these these are all one and one of the ones you know I certainly would love to talk to you about is when you were dealing with on perfect understanding. Yeah. Yes. Can you remember much about that
Ray Morse 21:35
Yes. What she's my idol. I loved Gloria Swanson she was a wonderful woman.she had been married about five times I would have married her a sixth time .She is absolutely my lovely woman. She's so intelligent. You know, she is so small. So small she had very tiny feet, you know. And she had her own dressmaker. And she had a lot of her dresses actually made on her on the set. She used to stand on a box of about three feet stand on a box. The dress maker used to come in with a bolt of cloth and yards of diamente and lace and knickknacks and pins and that pair of scissors and she'd stand on this box then drape all this stuff all around her and pins and things and she used to make a frock actually on her while she stood there, and then they'd film it Then the woman would come in again with a pair of scissors and cut it off.
Alan Lawson 22:50
Suddenly, yes.
Ray Morse 22:52
Yeah, and
I see. she was Mrs Farmer farmer then yes, he's married to Michael farmer. Mrs. farmer. This is such a talented lady because apart from her acting she is a good sculpture she's also had a very good singing voice is almost operatic you never say never, never used it in films actually sound is I think she only sang in one film the donkey's years ago that she's saying that famous, opers swinging down the lane. Remember swinging down the lane. And proponents fail in Grand swing. Swinging down the line. Yes, but
Alan Lawson 23:40
can you remember much about working on the floor there at Ealing on that film?
Ray Morse 23:45
Yeah, remember the swimming tank? That the swimming tank Genevieve Tobin was on that gel nail that day and Noah Swinburne cast
Alan Lawson 24:01
Laurence Olivier Yes,
Ray Morse 24:05
man. We did a lot of outdoor stuff at Lee on Solent you know, racing boats and things like that in and that was fun.
Alan Lawson 24:15
Because I guess because they eventually started Liechtenstein having a talking. They had to change who won the won the race.
Ray Morse 24:23
That was his problem side of the house. sea you know,
Alan Lawson 24:30
can you can you remember the any of the crew or the crew on it?
Ray Morse 24:36
No, no, no.
Alan Lawson 24:44
It wasn't Curack?. I think.
Ray Morse 24:47
Oh, yeah. Curack Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Yeah,
Alan Lawson 24:55
it was started off actually by first they were started off about I forgot his name. But they didn't like his rushes and threw him off and English and the director Do you remember the director?
Ray Morse 25:12
foreign bloke? I forget and didn'tsee much of it now I remember she used to come is to come on the set very late in the evening after we'd already done the day's work used to annoy we'd already done a day's work then he come late in the evening and say right. Okay boys, let's get to work in the days where
Alan Lawson 25:48
they are less. I would like to go back actually a little bit backtrack now to where and when you've doubled for Ivor Novello. This is about 1925 Yeah,
Ray Morse 25:59
That was in the Rat The standing in for Novello
Alan Lawson 26:07
So you didn't have much to do with Hitchcock and these people
Ray Morse 26:13
it's got filled with a lot
Alan Lawson 26:15
of makeup. Yeah. So you wouldn't you wouldn't remember the crews Really? Because,
you know there
there was Ivoe Motty? There's oh wait a minute I just wanted in the camera man. There was a man I worked with Baron Ventimiglia wonder if you remember him
now then
where where? Where whereabouts? Is your stage work come in was that running parallel with film?
Ray Morse 26:53
Oh yeah three years with the with the you know the prologue things Yes. ways to do so.
Alan Lawson 27:05
But that was silent days I'm doing about now in talkies in the talk is period what we were doing stage work then what kind of what kind of work was this
Ray Morse 27:18
well I used to sing and dance a bit really busy
Alan Lawson 27:23
Where did you get good at dancing from
Ray Morse 27:29
never had a lesson in my life for anything good Yeah. One of those things that come as you just do it I taught myself portrait or was a painting what sort of a you know taught myself music and when I bought my organ I couldn't play it and now I can play anything up to 100 songs when I do all my own recording and everything
Alan Lawson 27:57
but they also again another thing is you were a prop man
Ray Morse 28:01
Oh I made props.
Alan Lawson 28:03
When did you start making props?
Ray Morse 28:05
Well, it's making for the films that I worked on you know, even when you're doing
Alan Lawson 28:11
makeup
Ray Morse 28:13
where we didn't have any unions in my day you see I mean, that film I said Hullo Fame that was a musical designed designed all the sets I did all the makeup I was in it I wrote the ballet I painted the set made all the props I did everything in it I mean they're all separate unions now
Alan Lawson 28:42
now and we're no no
Ray Morse 28:45
separate unions nice
Alan Lawson 28:47
it's all it's all together cut off a whole lot come together it's all now wishes but you know this is what we're doing now in a way in BECTU is is the is the animation of them all except the electrician anyway,
Ray Morse 29:05
Anyway now made that big like big either myself. Yeah. Huge, great thing made out of chicken wire and plaster. which no one else could make it is to make it myself.
Alan Lawson 29:18
It's uncanny at uni.
Ray Morse 29:21
Ustinov only 19. He was a little shy boy. They played two parts he played the Son of the Father. And the Father has given us some you know, sex talk is one of those things. What do you want to know dad? You know?
Alan Lawson 29:44
I mean, the studios you worked in I mean, Whitehall, the Whitehall studio we
Ray Morse 29:52
only made one film and what happened to that studio never never functioned anymore.
Alan Lawson 29:59
That was the one that eventually became known as the Gate studio to do a right by the railway.
Ray Morse 30:04
That's right right outside the station.
Alan Lawson 30:08
It was it was started he was a dancer and the man who started that
Ray Morse 30:12
write a film there with a man called Adele Cumilla was the star
Alan Lawson 30:17
yeah that's it. Yes.
Ray Morse 30:19
Moon over Edgeway?
Alan Lawson 30:22
a document that
Ray Morse 30:23
was just in the crowd and don't get me wrong but does do never seem different.
Alan Lawson 30:29
It became the Gates eventually became the Gate studio and it was a dubbing theatre and much other things. Then kind of moving cross the road
Ray Morse 30:38
you've got Black Louis Black Yeah, remember
Alan Lawson 30:43
Louis Black yeah
Ray Morse 30:47
he was the man invented the tape recorder
Alan Lawson 30:49
was no that was his father. Yeah, yeah. But Louis Black I think ran the studio then Jerry took over there.
Ray Morse 30:58
We did the musical
Alan Lawson 30:59
BNG were tiny little are being BNG were down the road next door to BIP. Then they got burned down.
Ray Morse 31:12
Loved the musical with all the old timers Flatlay Desmond and Herman de rooskies band. Lovely band Herman de Rooskie and Harry Tate with moustache. Harry Tate It's crazy gang. all wonderful.
Alan Lawson 31:45
Then Marylebone studios, that's Marylebone studios
Ray Morse 31:52
that old church our I used to work for Andrew Buchanan.
Unknown Speaker 31:59
Yes, yes.
Ray Morse 31:59
What are they still alive? lovely little man. I love love to him. I did lots of work for him used to make trailers. Yes. Remember when they said the big picture and they missed our trailer say come in next week the most gigantic film ever made, you know and that's all the thing you must Don't miss it all the rest of it was to make trailers. And that required a lot of model work is because you couldn't you couldn't mutilate the actual film because they're mostly assembled America was he couldn't cut lumps out the film. So we had to make improvise. Yeah, but we're making models and things like that. No. I mean, there's there's one film for instance, that was the Ginger Rogers film I think it's called New York USA. So what I did I made a model of the New York skyscrapers you see and there was a tune in it called New York rhythmn you see I made this model of this new york skyscrapers and I made them all sway to the New York rhythm is the skyscrapers gave a slight slant to the rhythm and things like that. They made all these trailers This is lovely job. We made a lot of interesting things there. And they also did six documentaries of me of my work you know,
Alan Lawson 33:24
that was sort of yes
Ray Morse 33:25
well that was that was done at the Marylebones Studios
Alan Lawson 33:29
GB instructional
Ray Morse 33:32
and also did a very good thing making papyrus that was interesting. You know the Egyptian papyrus Yes, I actually made it in front of the camera. As as Egyptians were using the same tools and everything. And they actually actually actually active flow of actually active so here actually had to
Alan Lawson 33:52
fly stuff in
Ray Morse 33:54
Papyrus reeds from the Nile Fly, fly them over to the studio because they can only be made out of fresh, fresh cut reeds you see I had to do it in front of the camera and actually made a big sheet of this papyrus. In front of the camera is an Egyptian tool made up as as the old Egyptian now also dressed that was to Tutankhamen I got pictures of that. You can even see those photographs.
Alan Lawson 34:28
That Albany street
Ray Morse 34:30
Oh yes did a Musical they're really called Birds of a feather with a thing I want to see you and the piano birds out of that little bass drive away stray away stray birds out the window get to get the sun Remember the tune
Alan Lawson 35:02
many you've got spelt with that lovely Elstree old styles. That was my home Styles Starwood? remembering Cricklewood
Ray Morse 35:10
oh Style yes. So
Alan Lawson 35:14
what did you do? Can you remember what your work on there?
Ray Morse 35:18
Other things are warned off I think it was called racing racing.
Alan Lawson 35:23
It was a quota a quickie that unfortunately did a lot of that
Ray Morse 35:29
close down didn't it? Yes the Style Theatre to close down all gone
Alan Lawson 35:36
yes there are men science films
Ray Morse 35:41
Did a lot of work for them.
Alan Lawson 35:43
But was that what kind of work were
you doing?
Ray Morse 35:46
Mostly model work. Was this very small studio run by the Wolf Wolf brothers Donald Wolf's is three three wolf brothers.
Alan Lawson 36:04
What kind of what kind of films were they
Ray Morse 36:07
there scientific scientific films.
Alan Lawson 36:15
and
Welwyn Garden studios I
Ray Morse 36:19
never worked nice studio we did Two White Arms with camera crew ??same man that directed Ben Hur
name he directed
he did Ben Hur the original Ben Hur what was his name anyway easy name
Alan Lawson 36:46
to remember and whatnot or no before it became a you know mythos in large order. Did you What did you do that I can't remember what you did
remember that again? It'd
be very what were what has probably makeup
Ray Morse 37:09
would have been makeup and lot of these films you don't know what they were because they're just numbers of a code name name on the clapper board
Alan Lawson 37:21
or a name that got changed.
Ray Morse 37:23
I don't know what they were when they finally came out and Twickenham Twickenham them Flying Fools I got a still of that was all about shipping bodies back to the land of their origin say that was a card because the boxes didn't contain bodies at all they contain gold bullion bank. I got a still of that
Alan Lawson 38:02
and Dean street studios that was downstairs.
Ray Morse 38:06
That was that was the Dean Street
Alan Lawson 38:08
Yes. Wasn't it downstairs?
Ray Morse 38:11
Upstairs It was a long long road or a long staircase at the side in a semi modern building. It was on the corner near the market.
Alan Lawson 38:25
I didn't I didn't know that.
I knew another one which was downstairs but near aShaftesbury Avenue.
Ray Morse 38:31
did a lot of work there did a very big model of big long tracking model ever. Coal fires prehistoric coal fires on the tracking model going through the forest you know you have to make every tree by hand because they don't grow like normal trees are different than the way they grew you know? No so did the Spanish you know the Spanish caves with the drawings of the animals and that well we weren't allowed to film those not the real ones because they said the lights would damaged the damaged paintings and so I had to reconstruct it in the studio and do the paintings in the studio. Yeah. So I did all that What else did
I do?
Forget what I did. I did a lot of models there anyway. That was the GB instructional instructional films.
Alan Lawson 39:39
When were you working when you when the war came along?
Ray Morse 39:42
I was doing stage stuff for Lansdowne? Rubin's
Alan Lawson 39:51
musicals
to reviews. Reviews.
Where you called up immediately
Ray Morse 39:59
More or less, yes?
Alan Lawson 40:04
Where did you you went into the RAF but what has
Ray Morse 40:07
went in is on the ground. First of all, where
Alan Lawson 40:23
were we base?
Ray Morse 40:25
I was I joined I joined the RAF in 1939. I was based in Dyce , in Scotland, and in an underground operations room as a plotter
Alan Lawson 40:40
what actually was the job of the plotter,
Ray Morse 40:43
plotting aircraft in ships and air raids and things like that on on a giant mapgiant map underground you know
Alan Lawson 40:52
what did you do in
area right. Now,
how long before they suddenly remember that you were a model maker.
Ray Morse 41:07
But I did this nearly a year in this underground, plotting business. And then suddenly there was a notice on the, on the board asking for someone who could make models. I went to the CO and applied for the job. And it was Pinewood
Alan Lawson 41:34
Back home
Ray Morse 41:36
Measley rush down to Pinewood You see, until as soon as I got there, I met Tedy Baird? and all the people in civvy street just leave and say welcome. He got the job straight away.
Alan Lawson 41:56
Can you remember who was in charge of the unit?
Ray Morse 41:57
Gerard twist.
Alan Lawson 42:01
Had you worked with Twist and you were
Ray Morse 42:03
No never worked with Twist? I've worked for Teddy Baird. never worked with Teddy before Twist.
Alan Lawson 42:11
And what you came under the aegis of what free for you say the art department? Yeah.
Ray Morse 42:19
It was given to john Howard. My officer. Had you worked for him before? No, no, no. I met him before. He was sort of the art director. He never did much.
Alan Lawson 42:34
And I'm gonna stop there because I 'm going to turn over......................................
Alan Lawson 0:02
Ray Morse side two Ray while we had that break you suddenly remember the name of jack Buchanan's leading lady.
Ray Morse 0:10
Oh yes, it was Elsie Randolph yes just remember that
Alan Lawson 0:14
now let's go let's go back to modelmaking now in the RAF film unit Can you remember you know what the first one you were called on
Ray Morse 0:23
to do? I think it was that big model
Alan Lawson 0:35
journey together
Ray Morse 0:37
Oh no long before that
Unknown Speaker 0:41
what the big pack
Alan Lawson 0:45
what was in the model
Ray Morse 0:46
I think was for the balloon command
model of
one of the big balloons are very difficult models it wasn't it wasn't inflatable we say it was a solid model but that looked as though it was inflated in a very difficult model to make very successful I mean in the end
Alan Lawson 1:15
these things that they have scattered right the way around
Ray Morse 1:17
yeah Oh yeah. Oh, I can remember when one fel right outside my house in Notting Hill gate on a on a lorry in them all over London wonderful site when the whistle when you see them all going up. rise in all the same time all over London. like currants in the sky a wonderful sight
Alan Lawson 1:45
Too much was the that was the journey together one which was a beautiful model.
Ray Morse 1:50
Oh yeah, that was the Lancaster that was a star the show really was was all about the Lancaster was about the life or the life of the Lancaster.
Alan Lawson 2:02
Did you have much to do with Dicky Attenborough Yeah.
Ray Morse 2:10
Oh, nice to meet him in the car.
Alan Lawson 2:15
But he went on the floor surely he went on the floor.
Ray Morse 2:17
Oh yeah, of course. Yeah, check Jack Watling was in it to theBessie Love is the gangster bloke
Unknown Speaker 2:38
not Leo Genn
Ray Morse 2:42
Man it used to be a gangster you know in the film of famous gangster
Alan Lawson 2:47
Yes.
Ray Morse 2:49
Edward G Robinson
Alan Lawson 2:53
did you do the makeup on that as well.
Ray Morse 2:55
Yeah. Oh yeah. There wasn't much makeup to do to say more or less natural space to be you know little bits. I had a little bit in it too. I was a Free French thing you know a little bit in the jumping out of the window in order to play the joke on me you know they put both of water under the window on the last take I jumped in it
Alan Lawson 3:29
was that appreciated by john bolting? Yes, and
you had the sound recordist I will well remember your Bill Sweeney.
Did you remember you
Ray Morse 3:51
remember most of them
Alan Lawson 3:53
because you would have remembered Harry Weitzman
Ray Morse 3:55
Oh yes dear old Harry he used to suit all my models.
Alan Lawson 4:01
He was a very very fine
Ray Morse 4:03
very good cameraman. Excellent.
Alan Lawson 4:09
Because I can I can remember Harry shooting I think it was a I think it was a glass. I think it was a glass plate with kind of clouds on and underneath. That was your work.
Ray Morse 4:26
Most German battleships from a height that was a sheet of plate glass with a German battleships stuck on it. Then Vaseline put all over the glass. When you stipple it with a brush makes it look like water. For the waves . You stippling extra hard the back of the ships from height. It looks just like the ships going on in the water. This only Vaseline is not water at all you do that same with aircraft I need it underneath you ever see the glass suspended and the formation of aircraft in an A V shaped formation painted on the glass then you have wind and smoke and music and stuff like that and the camera just goes slowly along underneath the glass It looks as though the formation is moving along you know not moving at all some illusion terrible tricks they play .
Alan Lawson 5:43
Wonderful illusion that you know of all the models you did on on the RAF which was the most difficult one was it the balloon
Ray Morse 5:55
Oh the most difficult one to make had be made into halves had to make it in clay first in two halves two matching halves and make your plaster mould of each half. And then actual balloon was made out of organdie is a sort of transparent dress material that ladies blouses are made of it was all cut out little squares and pasted pasted inside the mould layer after layer and it was dry lifted it out. So you got to thin
Alan Lawson 6:35
something like paper machie
Ray Morse 6:38
like Papermachie neither the thin, then you put the two pieces together, you know, very delicate gel, you know. So it's quite light, you know, it's like an inflated balloon wasn't inflated
most detailed model there was that for big model of Hamburg. I think it was supposed to be when bombs were in the water and all
Alan Lawson 7:02
that was can you remember that? That was was that made for training? That's all you know?
Ray Morse 7:08
No, no, I think it was actual film. I don't know what it was called somre of the stuff was still secret in those days. bombs in the water off XXXXX If you tried to put the model bomb in water and blow it up. Doesn't look real if the water goes up and whacking great blogs out of proportion to the model. You can't make model water you see. So what we did we use condoms. We put like podiums and gunpowder and stuff, and have a detonator inside the condom. And we filled it out with French chalk and tied it out to say make it waterproof, put it in the water and then press the button for the fuse to go off. And the gunpowder stuff blows the french chalk through the water up into a plume. And it photographs like water. This is in proportion to the model if you can't make model water it is impossible. So what you're seeing is a plume of french chalk going up not a plume of water. Now that is for the lovely model, because it's all in perspective. You know all the detail of ships and cranes and buildings and stuff like that.
Alan Lawson 7:08
You are responsible for the whole of that model.
Ray Morse 8:43
Oh yeah, yeah, build every stick of it
Alan Lawson 8:46
Really.How does that kind of say that but barrage balloon How long did that take you to make
Ray Morse 8:53
About a month thing is that you're working on several models at the same time not necessarily working on one model in doing all kinds of jobs at the same time.
Alan Lawson 9:04
But that Lancaster bomber must have been very concentrated. How long did that take?
Ray Morse 9:11
Quite a while its got real motors in it what we use. We use the miniature camera motors for the motors. Just the props have to work is these camera motors. sealed inside you had to make them so realistic are not supposed to be models and yet they all have to be destroyed. You've got nothing left for the work when it's all done. You can't salvage any of it. And it's all destroyed. You see, it has to be so meticulously made, you know, oh I tell you what well, somebody came into my workshop in uniform You see, and we had a long talk about the models and things like that you know, about half an hour discussing all details about the model. Because then one of the one of my boys came after he had gone one of my boys came into the shop and said how did you get on I said what do you mean? He said What did you say? I said What did you say? He said terrible
from making an American uniform you say I didn't know I've been talking to Clark Gable for half an hour you don't know if they will you see this people in uniform you don't expect to be film stars
we used to have all kinds of celebrities now this is the seasons visiting the model shop
Alan Lawson 10:49
also a lot of top brass
Ray Morse 10:51
I've got a picture with all the top brass Baddinton? and all those people in making vanexplosives and things like that. And then bombs wonder I didn't get arrested.
Alan Lawson 11:15
When did you when you come out of the RAF
Ray Morse 11:17
stuck it for I think four and a half years and then became ill was then invalided it out. I've got seven six pence a year. seven and sixpenxce a week
Alan Lawson 11:30
what pension
Ray Morse 11:32
wouldn't even buy a packet of cigarettes
Alan Lawson 11:37
What did you do then?
Ray Morse 11:39
Okay, came to Burton and we lived in our house and Apple road there for a couple of years. I got well and then we went to back to Vancouver.
Alan Lawson 11:50
What did you What did you do then?
Ray Morse 11:52
I became a potter the pottery in the basement of my house we lived up the mountain Grouse Mountain Vancouver and a lovely view of Vancouver.
Alan Lawson 12:03
And again this is something you've never been taught
Ray Morse 12:06
No No teachers teach myself was there anything out of a book or anything like that, you know? And I'll show some ofmy copies before you go.
Alan Lawson 12:18
About three years.
Ray Morse 12:20
About about two years. I've made the pottery right Vancouver Vancouver's lovely city is a beautiful city lovely view of the mountain nor the thing I could look down on the Broward inlet and see all the boats go by as the boats go by to Vancouver Island you know I've been there lived in Victoria Vancouver Island that's the capital of British Columbia beautiful is decided Another one is down in the front garden if we had this view in England and we will as a million in a millionaire would have a view like this you know we had nothing we had this lovely view but it used to rain a lot in Vancouver quite a mild climate lovely lovely summer's never rains an awful lot green that you know we got a bit fed out with the rain and came to Florida So we went to Florida we went to St Petersburg first as further south in as further all the old people go I go there to die but they don't die they go on living in a beautiful place got a wonderful million dollar pier and all the rest of it you know beautiful sands and things you know, but there's no live in me there's just people for retirement you know you can't gonna live in there. So I said let's, let's go to St. Augustine, St. Augustine. I mean do you pronounce it St Augustine in every play? I call it's an Augustine there is the art colony as well like St Ives would be in England you know, all the all the artists from America go there for the winter and paint because the oldest thn in the milll in America. We're the oldest buildings the oldest jail the oldest post office, the oldest school the oldest everything you know. So we went there is on the other side. St Petersburg is on the on the Gulf of Mexico. Side St Augustine on the Atlantic side. Near marine land, you know, Jacksonville subject Jacksonville is the next city so we went there and I got this old building in Everly Street, as he called it. It's in the Spanish quarter, which is the art art colony in all the buildings, studios. With all the famous artists on it, they come from all over the all over the place from Cape Cod, New York and others. They spend the winters there because it's mild painting and all those do it Got this old building and started this studio painting and I did very well. The studio is 500 years old because it is the governor of florida official residence seven times say was Nicolas Ponce de Leander lived in a he was the brother of john Ponce de Leon, the governor, the founder of Robert and he lived in this house because it was all made of Cypress wood. So it's more or less indistractible. And got quite a history to it and since I've been back, restored it to its original condition and is now a tourist attraction. When you come back to come back this mother was getting there. She wanted to die. He didn't want to die over there. He had to abandon it. all no, I was buying the place it would have been worth a fortune now. No sad is it'll build the next door which is to use to sell my pottery Nice to meet people from all over the world. So the buggies used to go by the tourists and there's no no motorcars go by it was only a little narrow street with no sidewalk or anything. It was just horse buggies. You know, there's no build it was all covered with a thing called a money vine used dangle mypictures on it. So people could see them all. I used to be out in all hours as we painting midnight and that sort of thing is lovely at midnight, whacking great moon, the moon seem to be three four times the size of the one we get here in the studio is the cellar smell of jasmine and nor the tropical flowers, you know, Blue cpaelia?and all that sort of things. You know, it's very romantic, you know?
Alan Lawson 16:52
When you came back and did you do? What did you do?
Ray Morse 16:56
When we're when I came back, I thought I was going to get another little studio. Like the one I've left in Cornwall or something like that, but they wanted millions for just a hole in the wall. They've been in the family for 100 years.Thye wouldn't part with themhad an outdoor lavatory and no electoral light, it was worth millions secret of it a tourist attraction in the outdoor lavatory I didn't bother about that
Alan Lawson 17:30
didn't think of going back to films at all.
Ray Morse 17:32
No no gave it all up. You went into music. Had my own Television thing in Florida. Had my own Television slot showing the tourists coming into myself and possibly making pottery and stuff like that. I did very well there nice to exhibit my pictures at the local gallery and all that sort of thing. You know, I used to meet people from all over the world in met my next door neighbour, Heck was in Notting Hill Gate lived next door to Captain Charles Dickens, a relative of the Charles Dickens and two oldladies came into my shop one day and I said oh your English aren't yousays oh yeah, I said we're English too our name is Dickens sisters Well, my paintings are the must be all over the world people used to buy them, you know, come from all over the world.
Alan Lawson 18:36
I want to get back to makeup again. Did you have any difficulties with any artists you
Ray Morse 18:48
not really know most I'm really grateful, you know, you sort of become a confident, you know, because
Alan Lawson 18:57
this is your, this is my good side that
Ray Morse 19:01
you get a lot of that, you know, nose is a bit crooked and things like that. I don't quite straighten it, really. They weren't there. They worry about their face a lot. But, I mean, it's the most personal job in the studio, because after all you are sat away with them in a rooms, sometimes two to three hours, the film might last eight weeks or something like that. So I mean, they'd be become friends. Really, you know, and they tell you all their troubles, you know, my family troubles sometimes they're not well and as they quite frightened about their part or where they go, when they're going to forget their lines or if they're going to get the job and things like that, you know, and they tell you all that troubles and that sort of thing. You know, sometimes they like to rehearse their lines with you and you know, you become friends. You know, I've got all their signed photographs and all that, you know, they're very nice
Alan Lawson 20:01
How did you how did you how do you go about making somebody? How did
Ray Morse 20:07
How did you go about it?
Alan Lawson 20:08
Yeah
Ray Morse 20:09
well you set them down first cover them up tell not to be frightened have a cup of coffee
Alan Lawson 20:23
Do you do
is the is the director ever involved was there a director involved with you or the camera man?
Ray Morse 20:31
Oh camera man is sometimes involved in a pan chromatic film when someone thinks that that you know but they know they don't bother you very much they must leave it to you because they get it you get a script
Alan Lawson 20:46
yes
Ray Morse 20:47
you know what the character is what was supposed to look like and that sort of thing you know is continuity of course get the same makeup on each day over there's an ageing thing you know we can start young and gradually gradually get older and older and older and that sort of thing you know as all that to consider you know not very difficult really
Alan Lawson 21:12
what has been the most what was the most difficult kind of makeup for you to achieve
Ray Morse 21:19
no no don't think that I had a difficult one
Alan Lawson 21:24
well, one then put it another way the most complicated if you're like that I don't mean I don't mean difficult as far as the person is concerned is the concentration but getting the ultimate result in fact that you know me obviously got to change somebody completely. Perhaps
Ray Morse 21:47
Never really had a difficult one remember a funny one we did on the Mauritania as Romain Cortels? callled us and he played two parts he played a gentleman and and his btler played both parts and had just to make him up as the gentleman and to make him up as the Butler and the makeup room was in the stern of the ship and where we were shootin is in the bows of the ship sometimes we get him up in the bows of the ship with made up of gentlemen then they suddenly say oh we want him as the butler go all the way back change him into the gentleman proper mix up like that you know things that that most difficult ones really when you get someone that's really go gone off a bit you know some a middle aged and the eyes have gone on that sort of really got to make them you know a bit younger game you're now
Alan Lawson 23:06
making a silk purse
Ray Morse 23:09
I mean Genevieve Tobin I mean she was eyes were gone a bit baggy and that sort of thing you know, you got to
make it look young again natural thing you know, false eyelashes and white stuff are the most difficult ones really. First Person first person I ever made up was somebody called Ivy Pressman Ivy Pressman?? she's the first star ever made up
Alan Lawson 23:43
You can't remember the film
Ray Morse 23:49
Down at Mountford Studiso? I don't know what it was she was star at the time whatever it was in musical something or other it's the army that is referred to as a made up Duke costume and Duke of Kent
Alan Lawson 24:09
buy those during the war
Ray Morse 24:10
no no long before the war Lord Derby and people like that, you know? Duke of Gloucester stupid old fool,
Alan Lawson 24:26
yes, he was yes. I met him during the war.
Ray Morse 24:29
He couldnt even wash his own hands had to wash the hands for him and dry a little head with a small head. Awesome beside that.
Alan Lawson 24:48
Kind of Now. Going back over it all. Which which is which is the bit that satisfied you perhaps the most
Ray Morse 25:10
I enjoyed all of it really didn't like was getting up early in the morning and hated that old workman's train journey to earn enough to get out to Elstree Pinewood or somewhere like that and because they all the studios were out in the country in those days wasn't they
Course see I mean you didn't have time for breakfast or coffee and yet to get a cold studio before they put the lights on you know the studios were freezing cold and now they put the arcs on you know, warm them up you know, he really felt sick and had to do all this artistic work to do felt sick you know? shipping with cold we can always now dressing rooms were cold
Alan Lawson 26:01
which would the worst studio for that was it was it Sound City weather because that was a bit of
Ray Morse 26:05
sound city that was rather nasty
Alan Lawson 26:08
we didn't have that
Ray Morse 26:09
Did Colonel Blood there. Yeah, make your own blood room Colonel Blood it was about the stealing of the crown jewels you know Allen Jeayes is he was Charles and second it was he was a nice man. W P Lipscombe was the producer.
Alan Lawson 26:28
He was script writing I imagine too
Ray Morse 26:31
he likes it I think he did Clive of India too he did that one. I liked Sound city nice
Alan Lawson 26:40
in the old days it was a lovely place because it had them well it was a conservatory very lovely conservatory
Ray Morse 26:45
that's right as we used to have our lunch in there the restaurant man what was the in my days was the restaurant had a waterfall at the back where the bar was the rest of it it was real trees and that growing and because those were birds and things flitting about their gravel parts and stuff slightly
Alan Lawson 27:08
in on that you know one of those press cuttings you showed me It said you know Ray Morse Jack of all trades you know you are a master a lot of them which would you think you were the master of in the best sense of the word of which particular trade
Ray Morse 27:29
model building I expect I said a lot of patience you know because I had good eyesight in those days like doing the most meticulous work you couldn't do it now of course
Alan Lawson 27:41
it's still I'm still amazed that happened not to have I had in the track proper training. Still yet they were doing these fantastic models.
Ray Morse 27:51
I've never listened to anything as I said I left school at 19 left school at 14 I never learned anything in school either as I say we only had a slate r we didn't have computers ready reckoners and calculators and that sort of thing that they do now i mean if they cut the power off now they cut their brains off and we had to learn to read and write and add up and all that our brain we didn't press buttons and things to do it
Alan Lawson 28:28
would you like if you could start again Would you like to change it or change it?
Ray Morse 28:33
Yes. Right do it again I'd like to be a songwriter I really tried to go into music and
I like to be in show business general you know designing writing music sort of thing you know do our designing for the Astoria circuit is what has been on the stage it is designed a lot of the sets and things because this work for Lando and Ruby's latest.
Alan Lawson 29:06
Did they did they pay reasonably
Ray Morse 29:11
not not to reasonably steady work
Alan Lawson 29:16
I suppose that was one that was an important in those days, wasn't it?
Ray Morse 29:21
I was never I was never bothered about money. I'm not a money person. I live on nothing now.
Alan Lawson 29:29
I know it doesn't grow on trees.
Ray Morse 29:32
Well, I never I never did anything for the money and never went went for the job that paid the most I went for the jobs that I liked doing you know doing job satisfaction, satisfaction. turned down all kinds of jobs you know that pays better but I didn't want to do it. I've never bothered about money ever. never wanted to win money or anything like that I think the worries A lot of money. I mean the man next door is a millionaire. Now I'm a pauper but I'm happier than he is.he's miserable devil. I'm quite happy, poor you know I can make music but he can't.
Alan Lawson 30:22
Thanks very much Ray It's great.................................................
