Madeline Smith

Madeline Smith Part 1

This transcript has been produced automatically using Otter, https://get.otter.ai/interview-transcription/.

It provides a basic, but unverified or proofread transcript of the interview. Therefore, the British Entertainment History Project (BEHP) accepts no liability for any misinterpretation of the content of this interview.

However, the BEHP wants to make every effort to improve the quality of these transcripts and would welcome any voluntary offers to proof read this and/or other interviews. If you want to help, please contact BEHP Secretary,  sue.malden@btinternet.com.

Mike Dick  0:00  

The copyright that this recording is vested in the British Entertainment History Project. The name of the interviewee is Madeline Smith; film, television and theatre actress and radio. The interviewer is Mike Dick, and John Luton is on camera. The interview number is seven two two and the date is the 13th of March 2024. Okay, Maddy, can we say who you are and what you do?

Madeline Smith  0:29  

Well first I'm delighted that you call me Maddy. Because Madeline is awfully up itself. I'm thrilled to have the name Madeline but so I am Madeline Smith born Madeline Smith never changed my name. But between friends Maddy.

Mike Dick  0:45  

And your date of birth?

Madeline Smith  0:48  

Is the.. oh dear. Second of August 1949. Born Hartfield in Sussex.

Mike Dick  0:57  

Tell me a little bit about your background. 

Madeline Smith  1:00  

My background? Well... 

Mike Dick  1:01  

Where you were born and brought up. So, earliest memories, I guess. 

Madeline Smith  1:04  

Well, my very earliest memory, and it's absolutely truthful. I'm not conjuring it out of anywhere, is lying in my pram looking up at the trees. My granny I think was the one to wheel me through Ashdown forest, Winnie the Pooh country. And I remember lying in my pram and just watching the fluttering of the leaves. And I am fascinated by that, to this day, as I was as a baby. And of course in those days, babies had huge prams. And mummies put the baby flat on their little backs, or flat on their tummies or on their side. So I'm flat on my back. And Nana is obviously wheeling me through Ashdown forest, and that's my absolutely earliest memory.

Mike Dick  1:53  

Well tell us a little bit about, you know, growing up in that area, then.

Madeline Smith  1:56  

Well I was... so I was born in Hartfield, very near East Grinstead, and Hartfield. It was called Hartwell house, it's still there. And at the time, was a nursing home had been requisitioned by the army, because I'm born just after the war. And so this interim period, they turned it, whoever owned it, turned it into a nursing home. And instead of my being born in Upfield hospital, my grandfather, who was quite a chilly mortal, decided that I should be born in Hartwell house. So there I spent the first 10 days of my life. And my grandfather again he had risen from milk bottle washer, literally, bless him, in Fulham to quite a superior position with the express dairy. By the by, he had been very badly injured in World War One and totally changed his nature. He, at the time of his retirement from the Express Dairy from 'a running the North,' as he used to say, bought a dairy in East Grinstead, plucked my pregnant mother and my father from Hampstead, which is where they were living at the time and dumped them in ice-cold East Grinstead and bought a beautiful little dairy called the Brockhurst dairy. So my earliest times were being bathed in a tin bath, at the top of this little Brockhurst dairy on the London Road, now a tattoo parlour, and all the milk groundsmen, when my mum remembered, all the milk groundsman whistling as they came through. And me being bathed in my tin bath. So those are very early days. Grandfather then sold the dairy. And he created a milkman out of my father. And then said, right, that's it. I've sold that mob, to my dad. And you're now moving to Forest Row. So we moved to forest row, and I'm still a fat middle baby of a year old. And he had bought or rented, I don't know, a newsagent and a toy shop. And the newsagent was on the opposite side of the road of what is now the A22. And my mum and dad used to go and collect the newspapers from the early train. And apparently people used to see me sitting in my little green chair in the window crying. And they would say, Ursula, Ursula, your baby's crying, you know, well, no, we've got to do up these newspapers. And then eventually, obviously, in my inimitable fashion, I probably fell fast asleep.

Mike Dick  4:43  

When did you move?

Madeline Smith  4:44  

Then the grandfather again - "right, Bob" (that's how he used to speak to my father) "I sold the business. You'll have to go live with your mother now". He and my grandmother were divorced. So we moved to Kew, we took the cat. And my mother always recalled my grandfather saying, "either you shut that cat up or I'm going to throw it out of the window". So obviously, my mother must have muffled the cat. And I think the cat's name was Peeper. And we move to Kew and I lived in Kew for years and years and years. Most of my education was in Kew, lovely Kew Gardens. We lived with Granny for a while, and then we moved into our own house. 

Mike Dick  5:32  

What did your parents do then, when they were there? 

Madeline Smith  5:34  

Well, my father at that time was a draughtsman, suffered a lot with mental illness couldn't hold didn't want. Not that he couldn't he wouldn't hold down a job for more than five minutes. So he moved around the place all the time. And my mother worked from square one really. And I was dumped. I use the word dumped again because I really was dumped in a horrible nursery called Mrs. Silverman's nursery on the Mortlake road, Kew. And there I spent many miserable hours doing absolutely nothing and learning nothing.

Mike Dick  6:06  

Was there any in the you know, the family background, you know, in the acting trade at all?

Madeline Smith  6:11  

Not at all, not a soul. So my father was, as I say, a draughtsman mum was a translator, very good. Used to go to the national coal board to work, quite a responsible job doing translations. I could remember the name of some of her bosses. She particularly liked a lovely gentleman at the National Coal Board called Mr. Leslie, was probably a very kind man. Used to have to go to the pits after disasters, and come back stricken with grief. My mother was very affected by all of this. She had to type up all the disasters and everything and wouldn't talk about it. So I'm educated there. And then my father reaches the age of 40. And decides for lots of reasons to completely change his life, learns to drive. We've already moved house umpteen times. And he starts to go to Portobello and Bermondsey brings home little packets of...if anybody were to look around my room here, brings back little bits of junk, all wrapped in newspaper, and then rents various shops in Richmond in Surrey, and teaches himself to restore paintings and was quite successful and then had a little business later called Surrey Framers. Restored paintings, mounted them, dealt in paintings, was really quite good.

Mike Dick  7:33  

Where did you go to school them?

Madeline Smith  7:35  

Alright. Okay, Mrs. Silver Vince (?) nursery luckily expires for me when I'm far too old to still be there in a nursery, and I went to the wonderful Broomfield House School which still exists in Kew. Terrifying Headmistress called Mrs. Rose, but everything else was hunky dory. It was a wonderful little school. But then I couldn't stick Mrs. Rose anymore. And I begged to go away anywhere. Please take me away. And I went to the lovely Queen School, which was then on Kew green. Wonderful, marvellous school to great Headmasters was very happy. But it wasn't the school that Broomfield was. We had one teacher, and I had Mrs. Hodson for two years. And Mr. Marshall, who had a cough and gave me double rulers for nattering because I was bored. And then Mrs. Hudson took over the reins when I ascended to the top floor. And I used to get double rulers all the time on the knuckles, and she used to go purple in the face. Awful. I don't know. She used to get off on it. I think it was awful anyway. But they were double rulers. Can you imagine two wooden rulers on your knuckles? And I was always a chatterbox, I'm afraid and I was always bored in school. It was so stultifying once you've learned to read and write now what were you gonna do you know, you weren't going to go much further than that. At Broomfield at least we had a gym. And we had an art class and we had different teachers. So that was Primary School. So that was Queens. Never... always...always been shoved ahead at school always. Oh, this girl is so clever. No, she wasn't. Because I learned I learned to read very quickly and to write very quickly. So I never grasped the fundamentals of maths, and so I ....shouldn't talk of failure, but I moved my 11 Plus and got an interview, which was supposed to be quite grand. And I remember the Headmaster and I together on the bus, going to some interview, I think in Ealing. Together. We were sitting at the front, I always wanted to sit at the front of the bus. And so Mr. Seddon and I sat at the front of the bus and talked about life generally. He was such a lovely guy, and I passed my interview, you know. But I didn't use it. I then I was in a very good Catholic girl and a wonderful parish priest called Father McEnaney, who rather inconveniently died at the point that I went to senior school. But as a result of father McEnaney, I decided to go to a convent school. Mistake. In Ealing, and I was confirmed Madeline Claire Smith, because her Father McEnaney, whom I adored and started the long trudge, seven years, through St. Anne's convent in Ealing. And I didn't like it. One bit.

Mike Dick  10:45  

Any positives at all? 

Madeline Smith  10:47  

Yeah the first year was quite fun. made friends. On the first day a very sweet kid came up to me her name was Penny Smyth. Can I be your best friend? And I said, Absolutely. I'd love to be your best friend. So I enjoyed the first year. But I was already very, I was very naughty. I was very easily bored, unfortunately, at school. And it never really it never really, most of it never really grabbed me.

Mike Dick  11:12  

Did they not have things like school plays or...

Madeline Smith  11:14  

NO, NO and NO and NO, again, it was all Gilbert and Sullivan. And I wasn't interested in Gilbert and Sullivan. And so the answer is no. But they did, and this is the interesting bit. We were taken once to the brilliant Questers and I'm about 12 now but 12-13. I have to add Dusty Springfield went to my school. I'm about 12. And we went to see I can't remember it, the name of it now on blank. We went to see a Shakespeare. And I was enthralled. I'd never seen a Shakespeare. And the Questors is a very famous and wonderful theatre. 

Mike Dick  11:58  

Tell me a bit more about Questors. 

Madeline Smith  12:00  

It's amateur. Many professionals have emerged from the Questors, has a phenomenal reputation. It grows by the minute. So there we are this beautiful little theatre in Mattock lane, very near Ealing studios, actually. And John Sones house, Pitshanger, I think. And so there I am and I think oh gosh, I think I'd like to do this. So I learned a couple of speeches, st chip from St. Joan, and a play I've never seen Taming of the Shrew, and went along on a Sunday to join the youth theatre. And I remember that I was wearing a dolly rocker dress, pink dolly rocker dress with a little lace collar that my mum had bought me at great expense from Harrods. She bought me two on that occasion, I don't know what I'd done to deserve it. And so I'm there. And I can't remember the name of the Chappie who interviewed me but he was wonderful. And I got in. And I went to school the next day. And I told my form teacher, sister, Philomena. "Madeline, you can't do this group. You are doing your O levels, and I forbid you to do it". And that was the end of that. And it broke me, it completely broke me. I sort of, I kind of unwound emotionally from that moment on for many years actually. And it literally broke me I was so happy to do this and away from the stultifying boredom of this dreadful convent school. And life sort of closed in on me. And I have to say that I had a kind of teenage mini breakdown. 

Mike Dick  13:49  

 How old were you at this point? 

Madeline Smith  13:51  

Well, I think I was I actually think I'm 15 I think, 14 into 15. Studying for very tough O levels, Latin and so on. Because I was in the A stream. And I didn't say that I got a scholarship. I took a big exam got a scholarship, so no fees, no fees, which was great. And one of the reasons I think I stayed too long. I felt guilty. You know, I shouldn't leave because I got a scholarship. But she single handedly instead of answering back or or sneakily doing it which I could have done. You didn't do that, I was a good Catholic girl and you didn't do things like that. So I bowed my head and said right, okay, but it didn't do me any good. And that's an understatement. I think I was one of the first people may now it's quite commonplace that people admit to feeling grieved or grievous about growing up or school days. But in those days, nobody said anything. I never said anything but I just quietly unwound and starved myself.

Mike Dick  14:55  

Did you, I mean, what were your parents thoughts at this time then?

Madeline Smith  14:59  

I never took anything home with me. My dad was very distant. And Mum was very busy and I never took anything home. Really, I never, I never spoke about my feelings. You didn't. In those days you didn't say I want to sit down and have a talk about this. I'm feeling grieved about this. And, you know, whatever. You didn't do that. I went home, had me tea, went upstairs did my homework. Mum came up, put the light out, said that's enough, go to bed. It was, I had a very, very strict upbringing. We all did. We all did.

Mike Dick  15:36  

So what.. I'm trying to sort of think. Where, you know, so when did you leave school?

Madeline Smith  15:42  

Well, I but I didn't, you didn't. I didn't leave. I got thinner and thinner. And finally mum started to notice that I was a cadaver underneath my school clothes. And I was dragged to the doctor. And the doctor said, "this girl", instead of being kindly about at all, "this girl's got to go to hospital". And I was stuck inside the Edward Passmore Cottage Hospital in Acton on a medical ward with people who were dying. And it was not, not a great couple of weeks. I was fed Largactil every day. Do you want to hear about all this? Do you? Yeah. I was fed Largactil three times a day. That was to break my will. What little I had. And then my privileges were gradually taken away. And finally, because I obviously hadn't gained enough weight. I wasn't doing as I was told. I was told that all my clothes were taken away and I couldn't wander about any more and talk to people. And also one old lady one night, got up off her bed, climbed my bed, stood on it, piddled, and died. And I mean, really. It's good for a sketch, but not for real life. So I ran away. I ran away. I ran down the stairs and out of that place clutching my teddy bear, and onto the bus and home. And when I got home, my dad was shaving. I remember that. And he said, Well, I better go and tell your mother. And I was left alone at home thinking, well at least I've escaped. I'm out of that hellhole. But it took it took years for the effects of the Largactil to wear off. And I made a vow I will never ever ever in my life take a drug and I never have. So when did it start to get better? It's known as Carbamazepine. And it's given to old people in care homes. And that's why they're all like this. I can do that very easily. And that's why they all go to sleep because they're on this lethal stuff. Sad isn't it?

Mike Dick  18:01  

When did things start to get better for you? 

Madeline Smith  18:03  

The minute I was able to go out and be in the world outside of the convent school, and I got myself a whole series of delightful Saturday jobs. I revered them, particularly working in a recently modernised store in Richmond called Kempthorne. And it had a honey boutique. It had a coffee bar, you could smell the croissants and the apple cake as you went into the store. And I wanted to be a Saturday girl. So I started as a Saturday girl this is all part of the Biba story. So one day I'm working on jumpers and jewellery and division comes in, this gorgeous girl. And I watch her and she's got a little black dress on and I looked at her and she's got huge eyes, lots of eye makeup and a very short black frock. And I said where'd you get that frock? "Don't you know? Biba of course". So I said ooh, where's that? So that's in Kensington or whatever. So, ohh. Soon as I could get on the 27 bus. Used to turn right go over Kew bridge, turn right on the 27, turn left to the convent school on the 65. So I turned right on the 27. Got off at Kensington went down Abingdon road and a little converted chemist shop, Biba. Oh, Biba. Pitch black, lots of sort of Edwardian racks coat stands, boas, everything purple, tiny little dresses. And I honed in on a little stripy number, little pink and white stripes. And I had that... I'd saved money, one pound per week, working for Kempthrone, in a little brown envelope. And I bought this frock, I think they were about two pounds, two pounds something each. And I wore that dress into the ground, literally into the ground. I've got visions of myself wearing this little pink frock with little pearl buttons here. Washing it, it shrunk, you know, I mean, but by the time I finished it's up here. There's nothing much left of it. Biba was started by a lady called Barbara Hulanicki. I think she was Polish and I think she'd come over during or pre war. She originally had little catalogues of her own drawings. And they were sent in the post to people. So she was mail order. She was mail order, but she had this little shop. I said to one of the manager, I says, when I leave school, please can I come and work here? "Well, of course." Right. So we'll now fast forward. The last day of school I went to the water fountain in school had me last glug. Walked out through those French doors. Freedom! Up the road onto the 65 bus, might even have walked home. And the next day I start at Biba, which has now moved to Kensington Church Street.

Mike Dick  21:11  

What year is this then?

Madeline Smith  21:12  

This is 1967, July 67. I stuck it out until the last day. After A levels or whatever. And so I walk up Kensington Church Street, and on the left is Biba. Next to Biba is Bus Stop, two fab shops. Anyway in I go. Long hours, sort of you either did the late shift sort of midday to eight thirty or nine at night, or you did the very early one. And I used to take the train from Kew, where  I was still living, change, did I change? I think at Hammersmith to the Olympia line and got off for Kensington High Street. There were all these little swings and roundabouts. I think I used to have to change at Earls Court and hang around for the... anyway. So, I loved it. But once again, this deadly thing with me. My flipping imagination is always going and I'm always conjuring images and getting bored. So one day, I'm sent into the basement to look for shoplifters and sit on the floor. And I'm supposed to gaze up at them and look to see if they're piling on the clothes, pretending to be pregnant, you know. And naughty Maddie. She's got a book under her arm. And I'm sitting reading this Dostoevsky. And I never got past page one. And I get a tap on the shoulder. And it's a very nice lady from the office. Madeline, she said, between you and me. I don't really think you're cut out for this. Why don't you give in a week's notice. And nobody will know. All right. So I did. I didn't want to, but anyway. So I gave in my notice. I obeyed her. And meantime, I'd had some photographs taken on behalf of Biba, kind of, and the assistant... I better just start this again. One day I get sent to do some Biba publicity while I'm working there. In the studio of a photographer called John Cowan. The film Blow Up was made in that studio, and John Cowan was very famous. So I'm wearing some Biba frocks, floating about while he's talking about his life. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. He liked my face. He said that his assistant should take pictures of me. Okay, so basically now I'm fired from Biba. I go and pick up my pictures. Because I'm such a cheeky little cow. I hop back to Biba and show the photographs to my mates. Oooh look here, I know I've been sacked. But anyway, here we are. Barbara Hulanicki hears about this. Could I come into the back office and show her the piccies? So I did. Oh, she said. Would you fancy doing my first catalogue? My first photographed catalogue? Yes. Oh, yes, please. I'll give you 30 pounds a day. And take a couple of days. Turn up in riding.... no, no, no, no, no, no. Turn up Sundays. And I'll fit the frocks on you, I'll make the frocks on you, which she did. And I remember it was always afternoon because I remember having my mom's chicken lunch. Turning up to be fitted out PM on Sundays in the back office because the offices of Biba were literally at the back of the shop. And how much should I bore you with? So come the day of being photographed. I go to Riding House street,  to a basement studio, a wonderful photographer called Donald Silverstein. Mad jazz thumping. Have an absolute ball. He's wearing black leather. I'm thinking, I'm liking this life. This is great. So we've prancing around, Barbara's putting horrible little blonde curls on my head, tucking them into little bonnets and little bits of frippery, putting the frocks on me. And I still look like a skeleton, but she loved all that, loved it, the thinner, the better. Donald Silverstein is photographing me up through my crotch, literally up. So you get this kind of wonderful light on me, you know, like a kind of moon effect. And the photographs are there to this day, and the catalogue came out all black and gold. I go off with my 60 Nicker, and I'm very happy. And then I thought, ooh, I like this. There's been some adventures meantime, by the way, because I get to do a film, but we'll talk about that in a minute. Subsequent to the Biba, I trot along to Lucy Clayton model agency. And I'm interviewed by I think probably the owner. Oh yes!. Leslie Karch owned Lucy Clayton. And he said, I think you're you're not quite tall enough or whatever, or something. Lovely to meet you, you know, bye bye. But I'm not having that. So I went back the next day. I was so unbelievably cheeky. I don't know what it was. I went back the next day. Pretended I've not been there before. And one of the bookers says all you do very nicely, probably beauty work and a bit of fashion or something. When you want to start? Ooh tomorrow, will do, haha. And she said, but you have to have tested. I showed them. I showed her those photographs that I'd had done by Richard Dawkins. And, yeah, lovely. We'll use those but you have to have one of the things you have to do have to go and meet photographers have test shots taken. So I did all that. But eventually, it started to work and I was quite a successful model and I loved it. So we'll end that chapter there. But meantime guess what? After Biba, um, and slightly before the Lucy Clayton saga, I've gone to work in an antique shop in Richmond, very, very briefly. And my dad who had his little shop, opposite, this one was called Local Antiques. And I was lifted sole charge. My dad comes in he said, I think this might interest you. And he shoves a copy of The Stage magazine in front of me. 

Madeline Smith  21:12  

On the back page was an ad. They were looking for young girl to be in a film called The Mini Mob, starring Georgie Fame. "All comers come and be interviewed.. and do a.. do a.." I don't know interview or I don't know quite how it was worded. Right. Okay, so I ring them up. Shut the shop. And go home, because you had to go home to make phone calls. Rang them up said can I come along? Can I be interviewed? Yes, sure. Come along, you know, and I remember going along, camera going along with me. And just talking generally. You know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm Maddie or whatever, whatever, whatever. And right. One Saturday morning, Mum and I are about to go away and the phone rings and it's pouring rain. And I ran in from the front door and picked up the phone and talk about chance. "Hello, you got the job." Yay! Mum, Bobby, we're not going. "Can you come to St. Christopher's place tonight for a Japanese meal and meet the producers and the director". And that was the beginning of The Mini Mob. I'll stop there. Okay, so you want to ask me something else?

Madeline Smith  28:11  

No, I'm just I'm interested in that particular production.

Madeline Smith  29:25  

My first... almost first. I've I've done another little bit, but I won't go into that. 

Mike Dick  29:29  

I want to go into that as well. 

Madeline Smith  29:31  

Escalation.

Mike Dick  29:32  

What... what what what came first?

Madeline Smith  29:34  

 Escalation. Escalation came first, and that's actually why my dad shoved the stage under my nose. Because I was spotted in the street while working at Biba. Took two days off, went to some slightly sleazy room in the Royal... not the Royal Garden Hotel, the one at Sloane Square. Top of that one. Met some sleazy Italian producers. They gave me 30 pounds a day. Did I want to do it? I was to play the mad girlfriend of Lino Capolicchio, who was quite a well known Italian actor, and be in a film called Escalation. And I'd have to ride around on a bike and I'd have to go into a club where the guy where the wheels on fire was appearing. I'm jumping all over...

Madeline Smith  30:06  

[indistinct].. you're thinking of there.

Madeline Smith  30:26  

Yes, it was. It was. My mother is frantically, she's obviously managed to get the name of this club. I don't know how my mother did it. At four in the morning, my frantic  mother, "where's my daughter?". Anyway, oh, I'm dancing with a white face, you know? Oh, I loved it. I just love to make pretend. I just love acting and I love dressing up. I haven't changed at all actually. I'm still the same stupid person. Anyway, so that was that. 

Mike Dick  30:57  

So that's what triggered that. 

Madeline Smith  30:58  

That's what triggered. My dad giving me The Stage newspaper. He said, "You seem to like it." Uh, yes, I did. And the film is awful. I've been given a copy of Escalation. It's a sort of sex film.

Mike Dick  31:11  

Yes. I mean, I shall give you a quick description of what it says here. Plot. London. 1968. Luca, son of an Italian ritual winner is living his Swinging years away from the duties and responsibilities while his father wants him to be introduced to the family business at any cost. Luca is first forced to return to Italy, then is kidnapped by his father's collaborators, jailed into a sanitarium, put through electroshock and other torment. There. So it sounds absolutely horrific.

Speaker 1  31:40  

Of course we got to tell anybody and everybody. The actor was delightful Lino Capolicchio, right. I can't believe that they were doing it on a shoestring. Probably lying. I don't know whether he wanted to go to bed with me or quite what he wanted. But he said I don't have anywhere to stay. So I said, Well, you can stay with my grandmother. My grandmother. Absolutely. We live Pentsford Avenue, Kew. Absolutely fell for him. For Lino. Gave him spaghetti for breakfast. I think he probably did sort of want to date me because after filming we used to go and have supper together. He was an absolute sweetheart and a wonderful actor. He'd done things like View from the Bridge. I think he was Milanese. And he called me Skeletrino. So Skeletrino and Lino. Yeah, my grandfather couldn't believe it. It must have been more than two days anyway. Biba were always giving me at the time off to do various exploits within just that six weeks. So anyway, and also, we rode around on a bike in Richmond Park, Nearham gates. There's a little tiny lake thing there. Is there a little lake? Yes, we rode around around a boiling hot, August day. And then we took the same bike to Oxford Street, and they put it up on I think we were on a lorry or god knows what they hired. Anran. I think Robert Amram, the director, and the producer had a violent quarrel. We were keeping all the traffic at a standstill in Oxford Street. And they had [imitates fighting] and on the corner it's Lino and me stuck up here on top, you know with a bike and all. I've got a Sittar strapped to my back. I cannot tell you the dramas that went on between these these guys. I mean, there may have been two producers. They were all quarrelling all of the time, and fists are flying and the Italian and all that. Oh lordy, lordy, lordy. It was great fun. This was my I've never had such fun since. Well, because the spaghetti and my grandmother Lino and [indistinct], I mean really. So obviously I'm high as a kite. My dad and I had never really got on started to get on great now. He had waited for me to grow up, basically. He didn't know what to do with me when I was...  I can understand that totally. I was boring. I was always in the way, always you know. Anyway. But we got on great now. So here comes The Stage newspaper. Then I get The Mini Mob.

Mike Dick  34:36  

But what are your memories of..  it was called 'Mini-Affair' in the end, I think it went out as Mini Affair...

Madeline Smith  34:41  

 That should never have gone out, it was so dreadful. It was called The Mini Mob, and Georgie Fame is the star. And it's four.. is it four of us? three of us?

Mike Dick  34:47  

"Mod princesses who are so desperate for boyfriends that they're forced to kidnap them". haha.

Madeline Smith  34:58  

God. We kidnapped an MP, Bernard Archard. I remember that was Bernard, a very fine character actor. A DJ. I can't remember... Rick, I think his name was. Rick? I'm sure it was Rick, a sort of small time pirate radio DJ, very nice. We kidnap him as well. And we kidnap a Popstar, Georgie Fame. I think there were only the three of them that we kidnapped.

Mike Dick  35:25  

But it was a cracking...cracking cast, i mean you mentioned Bernand Archard.. costume and yeah, you mentioned Bernard Archard..

Madeline Smith  35:29  

Clive Dunne and Totti Truman Taylor my love! 

Mike Dick  35:31  

Yep. Clement Freud, Willie Rushden..

Madeline Smith  35:34  

Clement Freud on one occasion, looked at my arms... which were like two bits of skeleton. He said...He said, "I think you need to lose some weight." So... And most of this, it was based in Merton, God forbid, studios. But most of it was filmed in Skindles, I think it was, in Maidenhead. and it was icy cold and I was wearing virtually nothing. Jeff, I think he married Lulu. Jeff Banks provided my beautiful clothes. He had a little shop in... blank... beginning with B, big common... oh lordy..part of London. Blackheath. Little shop in Blackheath. Jeff banks. And he went on to become obscenely famous and it was so nice. So my togs all came from there. And I think he did marry Lulu didn't he. He was a darling, and she was a sweetheart. I should have married him. Anyway. So I was togged out there. And on one particular day, I had to be quiet or something or I was sitting, watching them filming. The butler and the maid, and the butler was Clive Dunn and the maid was an old actress called Totti Truman Taylor. The two of them that's it that consolidated it. I thought if I don't do comedy for the rest of my days, I'm going to kill myself. And I watched that... and Clive can only been in his 30s or something, then playing this butler and the two of them it was seamless. They were so funny. I was ill with laughter. "keep quiet". And watching these two adorable people.. that was.. that was the best part of the film. 

Mike Dick  37:31  

Because you'd never done any training at all and drama. By that point, or had you?

Madeline Smith  37:37  

On account of not having been allowed to go to Questors. Yeah, none. No productions at school. Nothing. I've done none, except acting with my friends. You know, stuff I'd written.

Mike Dick  37:46  

So watching these actors...

Madeline Smith  37:48  

And watching these, I've gone to heaven. I've gone to heaven. I'm watching these. Georgie Fame was bought rigid by me, unfortunately. I mean, I think Georgie always like older, luscious ladies. And I was a complete skeleton. No wonder he wasn't interested in me. And we had to share a bed scene and I had to fall out of bed. He probably thought 'Oh, thank goodness, she's gone.' And I then I then had to... don't ask me why, I had to run across a garden in this tiny little green slip of a nightie/frock. Why I had to do that. I don't know. No idea, but it was soaking wet and freezing. And we did...we did a scene on the river, on the River Thames in the middle of the night. And Rosemary, I can't remember her other name, Nichols. Fabulous actress. Was then in.. she was with Topol in Fiddler on the Roof. Fiddler on the Roof. And we had to wait for her to finish, get down to whatever dock we were in, get onto the boat before we could start filming and we froze. That's I think when we captured the DJ from a pirate ship. That's pretty well all I had to say about The Mini Mob.

Mike Dick  39:06  

 Pretty good. 

Madeline Smith  39:08  

Lovely memories. I loved it.

Mike Dick  39:10  

The next the next one I've got on the list is "Killing of Sister George".

Madeline Smith  39:16  

Yes, that was fun.

Mike Dick  39:18  

How did that all happen?

Madeline Smith  39:20  

Now I've got an agent, Joan Grey. 

Mike Dick  39:22  

Describe, describe Joan. 

Madeline Smith  39:25  

When I probably shouldn't. Joan was an interesting character. Apparently she came from... I've gone completely blank with all this because I'm trying to recall everything... she came from...where the ruined churches, the Hammer Horror stuff. She came from... help me. She came from...

Mike Dick  39:51  

Can't help you at all!

Madeline Smith  39:53  

Whitley or Wigan. Anyway, she came from north and I love northerners. So I'm certainly not sending them up. She was an innocent girl who got completely seduced by London and London life and had been Peter Hall's secretary in early days. She married a man called Denton Degray. They formed an extras agency, I was no part of any of this. They divorced. She then married Stuart Lions, and started living the grand life. Stuart lands was an in unbelievably handsome casting director and then later producer for 20th Century Fox. And I mean, he was a beautiful man. Joan meantime, has peroxided her hair and and tried to become Diana Dors I think. She used to go around, almost dressed as a child. She had a very strange childlike quality. Joan was very odd. But she represented some wonderful people. She represented wonderful character actor David Lodge, Carol Royal's father, Derek Royal, me, Angela Douglas, for a time. She had some fairly heavy numbers. Mostly character, she loved character actors. And she was a sweetheart in early days. And loved me, and was sort of motherly towards me, and sent me for one interview after another. And so in very early days, I get sent to play a nun in The Killing of Sister George.

Mike Dick  41:32  

Which I thought was one of the one of the great movies..

Madeline Smith  41:34  

I think it's a fabulous movie. I love it. But I'm in I'm in just a tiny little scene.

Mike Dick  41:41  

But again, the cast was great...

Madeline Smith  41:42  

But I want to make absolutely certain that everybody knows when I start describing this scene, that I have no prejudices against anything. I'm probably the most open to every every experience and everything and everybody. So when I say that I was interviewed in a gay ladies club. I say that joyfully. Okay. So I had to be interviewed by I think it was Robert Aldrich. And I go into through this secret door off the King's Road, down some stairs. And I'm told not to come all the way down. I've just sit at the top of the stairs and wait my turn. And I looked down over the bannisters. And it's all ladies dancing and kissing each other. And I thought that... I thought how wonderful that was. I still do. They were all embracing and cuddling and probably a lot more. And, and I'm, you know, watching them and so on. And then I'm summoned and I meet this lovely older guy. I remember he had big glasses on. And yes, I get the part. I'm told I've got...ooh yippee! So then I get dressed as a nun on a subsequent day. And I look like one of my blinking nuns from convent school. And there's more to this story. There's two of us in the cab. And the whole point is that Beryl Reed, who is a very disappointed actress who's been fired from her radio job. That's the plot basically. I can't remember whether she's supposed to be drunk or not. But she falls back into the cab anyway. And we two nuns... I think we're soundless... ooh horror horror, you see. The other lady was very sweet too. Horror horror, and that's our scene. Okay. But the whole point is, and then you've got Beryl's face grinning. And I remember she was wearing a great big lesbian style suit, bless her heart. And so that's our little scene. Then time for me to go home. It's about noon, togs on again, I get onto the underground. Guess who's sitting opposite me on the underground. Sister Philomena. I didn't know what to say. Oh, hello. And I remember vividly I said to her. Hello, sister. I've been a nun all day. I mean... I mean, what do you do with that? Yes. And that's... no, it's not the last time I ever saw her because I was asked in 1980, I was asked to go and open their wretched fete. And she made some other wry remark on that occasion. I remember oh dear, we really didn't get on at all.

Mike Dick  44:28  

So you weren't the prodigal daughter obviously..

Madeline Smith  44:31  

No I didn't know what it was. Either I was the daughter she longed to have, or I was the opposite, but I don't know. I never understood.

Mike Dick  44:40  

Sorry can I ask about Robert...

Madeline Smith  44:41  

I can't say much sweetheart, except he was lovely. We did the scene in five minutes. You know the tech soundscape backing up or whatever. But we were just stuck in the cab, she and I. We didn't really get any direction except 'look shocked.' He was a darling. I mean, he was over here somewhere. We were in the cab. I think the cab driver was Sam Kid. I think I've lied to his son Jonathan. I think it, was it Sam Kid? I think it was. Oh, my goodness. I think I said the other day to him. I never worked with your dad. I think it was, I think...

Mike Dick  45:17  

We'll have to check it back, check it..

Madeline Smith  45:19  

I think it was. Oh, my goodness. I'm a liar. Anyway that was the end of that day.  I loved it. And I think the film is smashing. I think Susanna York was wonderful. Was very funny in it.

Mike Dick  45:34  

Yep. And I think the other one I remember from the filme...I haven't seen it since...Coral Brown was phenomenal...

Madeline Smith  45:40  

Well I was in Film Theatre of Blood with her. She met Vincent on that film. And they got married. I adored her.

Mike Dick  45:51  

Next one I've got is The Ballad of Tam-Lin which was shot in the summer of 69. A Traquair house in Scotland and other locations in Peebleshire.

Madeline Smith  46:05  

Yes. And we stayed in the Peebles Hydro all of us. What that cost them I can't even begin to imagine. I think, I think it ruined them. I think, I think Ava turning up late every day and...

Mike Dick  46:18  

we'll see.. well let's go through the cast. Ava Gardener?

Madeline Smith  46:20  

Oh, loved her. She was 49 years old.

Mike Dick  46:24  

Ian McShane...

Madeline Smith  46:25  

lovely.

Mike Dick  46:25  

 Richard Walsh. Stephanie Beecham...

Madeline Smith  46:27  

Richard Wattis.

Mike Dick  46:28  

Wattis, I should say. I beg your pardon. 

Madeline Smith  46:29  

Big character actor, sort of stole the show really. 

Mike Dick  46:32  

Stephanie Beacham. Joanna Lumley?  Cyril Cusack. 

Madeline Smith  46:36  

But I do have to say at this point, that yes, you're reeling off the names, but definitely different size parts. And Stephanie was a star in it. Dressed very drab, but huge part. Ian, Ava, Richard Wattis, Cyril Cusack, Stephanie, they're the big ones. I had quite a nice part in it. And was there much longer than a lot of the cast. Joanna, Jenny Hanley, and the others came up later. They filmed stuff with me. For some reason, I don't know why they consider.... I was sort of Ian McShane's kind of annoying girlfriend did it, with a dog. And I was... I was so annoying. I can't bear it...I've seen it. I annoy myself so much in it. I'm so dreadful. And my voice is so awful, and I hate myself in it. End of story really.

Mike Dick  47:34  

Directed by Roddy MacDowell. His only piece of directing, I think, and he basically, apparently he sort of said he made it because he wanted to make a tribute to Ava Gardner.

Madeline Smith  47:45  

Aw. They all loved each other and we kept having terribly famous visitors. We had Sean Connery came down. Lauren Bacall came down. The adorable, oh my god, I could cuddle her -  Lee Remick came because she was then the girlfriend - not yet the wife - of our first assistant who was Kip Gowans. Do you know about Kip Gowans? Ah, lovely man. They were they had an idyllic marriage. Till death. I think. Lee Remick was out of this world. I revere her. She's the kind of actress I longed to be. Ava was wonderful. The only problem she didn't appear to a midday. Fully made up at midday. And we've all been hanging around since you know, early. That we're...we're the space where Ava should be. But when she did appear, she was blinking marvellous, actually. And so lovely.  But Joanna decided that she would winkle Ava out of her room and used to call her - in fact Richard Wattis did as well - they used to call her 'Big A.' And Joanna used to go in and get her out of her room and bring her in. She very shy, desperately shy Ava.

Mike Dick  49:06  

Roddy McDowell. I mean, what was he like as a director? 

Madeline Smith  49:08  

Lovely.

Madeline Smith  49:09  

But do you? Do you want the story about Sean Connery? 

Mike Dick  49:12  

Yes, please. 

Madeline Smith  49:13  

It's rude. Slightly rude. It would have been a lot ruder. Only I didn't allow. Okay. You really want it?

Mike Dick  49:24  

Yes, please. If you're if you're happy with it, yes.

Madeline Smith  49:27  

I'm quite happy with it. People will enjoy it. So okay. I have never been able to go to bed. It's an illness with me. I like life too much. Never want to put it to sleep. It's a problem. So we're all staying in the Peeble's Hydro. Great big stairs up to our rooms. It's the grandest ever, and it's golf mad in that area. Wonderful golf courses. Okay, so I'm sitting after supper at the table. Long table, everybody eats together. Roddy MacDowell has gone to bed. Stephanie Beacham always went to bed early. She's brilliant. She's so professional. So I'm sitting there. I'm still stick thin, peroxided, blonde hair. Looking completely brainless. And maybe, just think who's still there... nobody very much. I've still got the same Dostoyevsky book, stuck under my arm. And I still haven't got past the first page. Oh dear. Sean Connery is sitting at the end of the table. And I think he's bored now. So I decided to go to bed. Dostoyevsky's stuck under my arm. So I go up the stairs, and there's somebody behind me. "Can I come up with you, and help you run your bath?" It's Connery. So up, I go. And I've actually got the bedroom next to Roddy MacDowell, who's asleep now. It's very, very late. And so he comes to my doorway. And he said, "I can help you, I can read... What do you read? I can read Dostoyevsky, to you in the bath." This is all absolutely true. Every word of it. And I said Mr. Connery - I think we might have been halfway into the room - "Mr. Connery Roddy MacDowell's next door." Can I just do PS by the way? For anybody that's still listening to this. I was a virgin. And I didn't know what boys looked like. Okay. Right. Carry on. So I said "I'm so sorry. I can't invite you in." And he went really quite nasty. Quite nasty because he thought, "I'm Bond. And you will let me in." You know, and you know, "you stupid girl. You know what I want to do with you." No I didn't! I'm not going to recover from this. Oh, I didn't know what he was going to do to me, but I knew it wasn't very good. Anyway, he goes and I go to bed. Next day, I'm out on a walk. Mr. Connery is out on a walk. And he studiously ignored me. I wonder why. End of story.

Madeline Smith  49:33  

I'm looking now to...your move into television, when television opportunities started. 

Madeline Smith  52:42  

Yes, and a lot of black and white, may I add. Yes.

Mike Dick  52:46  

1969, you dida programme called "Who Done it?" for ATV. 

Madeline Smith  52:52  

Yes, I did. 

Mike Dick  52:53  

And you played a character called Gwenyth Evans.

Madeline Smith  52:56  

Did I? I don't think... well, I don't think Gwyneth had a lot... I was one of many, many school girls. I met my friend Moira Foote, daughter of Alistair Foote, half of the team that wrote No Sex Please, We're British. And we've been wonderful friends ever since. I can't remember much. But I do remember that Derek Fowlds, played an extremely unpleasant schoolmaster in it. And I can remember various mistresses and people running about and I think we did it live, as it were. It was recorded all in one and we were going down little corridors. And I remember thinking, gosh, it's all a little bit like I'm doing this at home or in my back garden. It was so you know, the little set... little papier mache sets and things, and the camera, you know running and you run down the corridor or whatever, you know, it was great fun.

Mike Dick  53:46  

Did you remember how the opportunity first came up?

Madeline Smith  53:47  

No idea. None at all. Obviously an audition. I can't remember at all anything about that whatsoever. But I do remember it was a long way from home.  I can't... ATV was was was was.. where was ATV? In those days. It wasn't Midlands, it wasn't Midlands...

Mike Dick  54:09  

could it have been in London? No that's [incomprehensible]... I think it would be Birmingham..

Madeline Smith  54:14  

Or maybe Moira and I went there, yes, possibly. I'm so sorry. But I just remember that's where I first met the lovely Derek Fowlds, whom I met much later again in his life.

Mike Dick  54:25  

This seemed to be followed fairly quickly as you know, you've got six episodes of Cribbins.

Madeline Smith  54:30  

Well that I can remember vividly, because I loved it so much. The only time in his life that my father ever gave me a lift anywhere in his car. He was so pleased I was doing this because we all loved Bernard Cribbins. And I remember turning up, it was a little... in a little boathouse. Not actually within the building, not actually within Thames itself. Next door, it's still there, looking right at the river. And I remember there's a great big window and I used to look out of the window. And I just sat in awe while Bernard Cribbins rehearsed all these sketches. Carmel McSharry, wonderful character actress, played his wife. And I think I learned a lot watching them. They were fantastic together. There were a couple of writers, I can't now think of their names, who hadn't written anything but but participated as actors and then went on to write a lot of comedy together. I think that was it. And there was a girl called Laura, who was big, busty, didn't say much, but was there as sort of in a way we were both foils for Bernard. If there was something particularly...particularly gormless, he put me in it. Patrick Cargan was another one. He was in it. And they were actually, they were all, they tended to be Thames stalwarts that they chucked in with Bernard, but this is Bernard Cribbins, actor Bernard Cribbins with his own television series. That was quite something in those days, Cribbins, exclamation mark, lovely man. I knew Bernard right up until he died. 

Mike Dick  56:12  

Talented man, he really was.

Madeline Smith  56:13  

I think he was wonderful. He actually came to my husband's funeral. I think he'd done a film with him. And suddenly there's dear Bernard disappearing, not wanting to be seen. He's come to support me. I adored him, absolutely adored him. Under estimated in my point of view, you know.

Mike Dick  56:34  

What was it, the Railway Children?

Madeline Smith  56:35  

He was known for that, fair enough, but but not enough as a... as a clever comic. Known for children's television, but he was so clever in other ways. There was so much more to Bernard than people realised. For example, Bernard Cribbins had a huge interest locally to him in Walton on Thames with a theatre which gets by simply on love. It's called the - gotta get it right - The Riverside Barn Arts Centre, founded about 30 years ago. And he supported it. He was it. 

Mike Dick  57:08  

These are the things that are really interesting, I think. People....

Madeline Smith  57:13  

He did a huge amount, and not only for them, supporting them. But he also... huge, genuine, huge amount for charity. And he looked after and cared for his wife who had Alzheimer's, who lived with him until she departed. Just a year before he died. He couldn't bear life without her. They weren't they were like that. They were one, he and his wife. Anne, I think her name was. 

Mike Dick  57:39  

Excellent.

Madeline Smith  57:40  

No, he was a wonderful man. Always remembered you. He didn't say well... oh, yes.. well, maybe, oh, yeah, or whatever, and then walks in the other direction. He was right in there with you.

Mike Dick  57:56  

'69, the same year, you auditioned for...

Madeline Smith  57:59  

I did indeed, 

Mike Dick  58:00  

Taste of Blood... 

Madeline Smith  58:01  

And that was an audition...

Mike Dick  58:03  

...of Dracula. 

Madeline Smith  58:04  

For the casting director lady -  names got out of my head, you can help me with that. 

Mike Dick  58:09  

I can't, unfortunately

Madeline Smith  58:10  

No, doesn't matter. Lady, lady casting the... temporarily casting the Hammer films. And she was quite frightening, as they often are. And I was given the part. And... everybody has to remember everybody needs to know that I'm a virgin. Not currently, but I was a virgin. And so I was cast to play a little prostitute in a bordello. And my name was Dolly. And I had to ride on the back of Jeffrey Keane, but of course I have no no idea why I was riding on his back or indeed, why I went off with Ralph Bates. When he clicked his fingers and I disappear into a room. I had no idea that we were going to have conversations about what we wanted for tea or something. I have no idea. Certainly didn't. And he played Dracula actually in that. He was fantastic, Ralph Bates. Had a lovely, gentle unscary face, but my God when he put it on he was really quite, quite frightening. So my scene was with Peter Sans, I think was in the bordello. Jeffrey Keane, John Carson. See how well I remember this? A lady with a snake, with whom she did - with it -  she did a dance. Huge great - real snake. And some rather interesting music going on. Eerie music being played as well. Yeah. Anyway, I had to ride on his back and apparently Jeffrey Keane told John Carson that I was heavy. I weighed seven stone. 'Heavy.' He used to moan a lot. He was a lovely man, Jeffrey Keane, but he moaned a lot, a lot. I think it gave him some kind of release. A lot of actors are like that. They have a good grumble and then if you're really good, then you go and have a drink. So that was the sum total of my box of beats as a little clip, I go off with it. And that's the end of my scene. As a result of that, not completely disgracing myself. I'm given the part of Emma in The Vampire Lovers.

Madeline Smith  58:22  

We'll come on to that later. But I was just interested in your first impressions of working with, you know, for Hammer.

Madeline Smith  1:00:26  

I loved it. very intimate. Very, very intimate. We were a tiny little set. I remember thinking how much less frightening than I'd ever feared, filming was. How intimate, how lovely everybody is. All the camera people and the grips and the lighting and the director, of the first, bullying first assistant. He became my friend. That was Derek Whitehurst. And he became a real friend. And I remember saying to him shortly before he disappeared, ill. Saying, you never ever made a pass at me. You never ever embarrassed me. We were pure friends. And my God, he was. I mean, he shines forth in my memory bank, for many, many reasons. So he was the first, Hammer loved him. Derek always used to go around with a little Ciggie, like that. So he was the Ciggie burning quietly, and he never ever puffed in anybody's face. It was a little comfort blanket there. Didn't really puff it, just there, it was his little Ciggie. And when it burnt down, he had another one.

Mike Dick  1:01:38  

What was the audition like? 

Madeline Smith  1:01:39  

He was a dear man, frightening. I can't remember much. I just remember it was scary. And I didn't know whether I got it. And I wish I could remember her name. I found her a little bit, a little bit scary. But I'm not even sure she cast anything after that. I think they all disappeared when AIP came in to sort of take over Hammer. I think all the old guard went. So it could well be that she probably didn't even class Vampire Lovers. And very often, I was second or third choice. They wanted this one or that one couldn't get it. Well we'll get her then, you know.

Mike Dick  1:02:17  

How much would you...what would you have earned, in those days, then?

Madeline Smith  1:02:21  

I've got all my contracts except, except the Bond one which nobody has ever managed to find. Very little, pence. Literally. Pound or two. I know that for radio, you were really laughing if you've got 12 pounds. That was a really good sum. Haho! I never did it for the money. I just did it for the love. Joan Grey, my agent, used to say "do you not want to hear.." "oh, alright.."

Mike Dick  1:02:48  

I mean, the impression i get...

Madeline Smith  1:02:51  

Pounds, I was always the lowest common denominator in everything. I was untried, unknown, possibly terrible. Certainly in certain things I was absolutely dreadful. I think by the time I came to do that one, certainly Vampire Lovers, I was beginning to learn. I think I think they hit I think the head was actually sitting straight on my shoulders now. And particularly Vampire Lovers with Roy Ward Baker who was stunning director. 

Mike Dick  1:03:18  

We'll come on to that.. hold your horses..

Madeline Smith  1:03:21  

I will. I thoroughly enjoyed it. The scene took a day or two, maybe even one day. That's something about Hammer they were incredibly quick. 

Mike Dick  1:03:32  

was it Elstree? 

Madeline Smith  1:03:33  

Elstree. Tragically, I'd never worked at Bray by the river. What a wonderful studio. Willdy (?) corner, Elstree. 

Mike Dick  1:03:44  

Tell me about [going to] Elstee for the first time. Your first impressions?

Madeline Smith  1:03:47  

Always in cabs, always running up down in the road waiting for the dreaded cab to arrive, always late. First impressions, not very impressed. It looked like a block of flats or something. I haven't mourned it's semi demise, I must say. I think, I think Elstee could have done better. Not not a great place. Nothing architecturally to write home about, unlike Pinewood or Bray. It's all right. He doesn't have any atmosphere at all.

Mike Dick  1:04:16  

Right? Well into 1979, I think Right. Right. Now again, I'm happy to see them get the chronology right. The next one, I've got this for Yorkshire Television, his and hers.

Madeline Smith  1:04:28  

Lovely. That came about after my first stage play. Casting Director, Maureen something, saw it and wanted to cast me in that and I loved it. The only trouble was my cat died halfway through.

Mike Dick  1:04:44  

Do you want to.. you talked about your first theatrical role. Do you want to start with that and then then that leads into...

Madeline Smith  1:04:51  

No I can talk about that independently. I can just say.. allude to it and then talk about it. If you're on telly let's stick with telly and keep going

Mike Dick  1:04:59  

...i'm trying to do chronological...

Madeline Smith  1:05:03  

it actually went from. There was also a part with Michael Redgrave and something I think might have been good by Gemini or something. Wonderful. Golly, he was nice. And a day or half day at Twickenham film studios. Then came Christmas... so Taste the Blood of Dracula, then whatever that was with Michael Redgrave, then Christmas, Vampire Lovers, Forbush and the Penguins, out of which we were all cut because Roy Bolton took over the film, left John Hurt and the penguins, cut Susan Fleetwood and me and Madhav Sharma and everybody else out in the bin. I was told to go and forget the stills and the photographs and take them home quick.

Mike Dick  1:05:54  

And it was nothing about performances or anything at all?

Madeline Smith  1:05:56  

think Dr. Bolton came in it was to be a vehicle for Haley rather than Susan Fleetwood starring in it. And Susan Fleetwood was a fantastic, RSC actress. I think it was a foolish move. Maybe it was having having problems, financial problems, probably. Most unusual plot about John Hurt going off to the Antarctic or something to study penguins. And I was his girlfriend I think.

Mike Dick  1:06:25  

So 1970 was a really busy year. 

Madeline Smith  1:06:28  

It was!

Mike Dick  1:06:29  

starting with The Vampire Lovers directed by Roy Ward Baker and screen ...screenplay Tudor Gates?

Madeline Smith  1:06:36  

Yes. And that was his real name. I never believed it. But it was

Mike Dick  1:06:40  

I know Tudor Gates very well. We have an interview with Roy Ward Bake on the History Project. And we also have an interview with Tudor Gates.

Madeline Smith  1:06:49  

Roy was out of this world but he was a bit like Angela Allen he could be quite waspish. If he felt like it.

Mike Dick  1:06:55  

Tell me about Roy then.

Madeline Smith  1:06:57  

Oh I loved Roy. It was Roy that managed to extrude is that the word squeeze a halfway-ish decent performance out of me. But we were struck with two ghastly producers. They were a complete nightmare. Hammer were in the doldrums and they'd sold out to AIP, American International. Along these two horrors in the shape of Harry Fines and Michael Styles and they are an absolute nightmare. They have come in to hot it up. They want sex. I didn't know any of this. They want sex, they want heat. They want orgasms. Anything you can conjure, do it. I had no idea. nudity, preferably full nudity. As much as you can give us. They ruined Hammer, they ruined Hammer. And the boss, Jimmy Carrerus(?) gone completely. We have a launch party in the Savoy. We were introduced to these two nightmares, gone. And so when it came to starting to shoot, I'd already had a phone conversation from Michael Styles. He said I don't want to embarrass you, but I'd like to know your, in other words, what size your breasts. He didn't actually put it that way. And I said Mr. Styles, please don't worry about it. I shall nip to the Hornby and Clark dairy down the road and I'll by myself lots of yoghurts and lots of milk and they'll be fine. Some of the conversations I had in my youth. Anyway, I did nip, and I stuffed myself full of muesli yoghurts, which are actually quite pleasant. Lots of muesli in a yoghurt, made it edible and feeding myself up. So come the first day of shooting. I've gained maybe half an ounce. And we shot some nice stuff with wonderful Roy Ward Baker. Lots of me looking at Ingrid and Ingrid looking at me and more looking at Oh, and I'm reading my little in all that. 

Madeline Smith  1:09:08  

[inaudible].

Madeline Smith  1:09:13  

Well, Ingrid, Ingrid Pitt was very foreign. very beefy, meaty, adored by males, didn't mind stripping off anytime, anywhere, and exposing herself and... lovely, and loved men and loved life. Was... was tough. I mean, you didn't you didn't mess with Ingrid. Come the day that we are going to do a bed scene, though you got to remember that I'm completely innocent. The fact that we're in a bedroom doesn't worry me. So I've got to run around the bed. She's lying on the bed waiting for my darling and Styles has said to me, well, this is only for the Japanese version, nobody is good to see this. So if you can undo your bodice, you know, let them flop out, and then lie down on the bed and let them flop out some more. And I'm like this, you know, there's nothing, nothing in any contract. There's no, you know, I know Caroline Munro used to get asked, do you mind exposing? And she would say no, I do mind. Well I wasn't asked. And Michael Styles was just vulgar beyond belief to me. So I did it. I obliged him. You can see it in photographs, you can see it on my face. And I'm sort of going oh, dear I don't really want to do this.

Mike Dick  1:10:36  

 Was it a closed set?

Madeline Smith  1:10:38  

I don't think so. I Expect the world was able to watch. So no. And then, you know, I'm running around running around the bed and so on. And then I'm lying down. And of course, they flop out beautifully, as they're told to do. And then she comes and kisses them and things. And that's just for the Japanese version. I think they did a cleaned up version that was never used, of course. And there they are for posterity and cameras. Were clicking. absolutely marvellous. I think that was the only time I was asked to expose myself. She certainly did... did a bath scene with everything flopping out, and then would go around, opening up a dressing gown to all comers. The only fuss Ingrid made was about her fangs. The.. these. She screamed, you could hear it across the studio. Shee screamed at these things. She hated it. But she was after all a vampire. But I didn't make any fuss. Then also... then became the orgasm scene. I didn't know what an orgasm was. Never heard of an orgasm never been as you know, I was inexperienced. And so I now have to have a nightmare. And I'm a dear dear Roy Ward Baker. He was such a sweetie. "Give that girl a hot water bottle". Because I'm looking green in real life. Nevermind the makeup. So I'm dying. Right? She's bitten me and I'm dying. And the interesting thing is I didn't turn into a vampire, which I should have done. So in a greenling kind of a way I'm lying there. Styles comes up to me, loudly in my ear. "I want you to roll around and I want you to the.." Right. Okay, so I rolled around in there like this. He comes up he said "you'll have them all go to sleep in their seats." I think he said in the aisles. "Hot it up!" So Roy Ward Baker comes in gets him out. And he said to me just pretend you're having a really, really bad dream. Not.. So of course I'm... Oh, you know, terrible, nasty monsters and things like that, you see? So I got away with it. And I think Ingrid doesn't she come to me as a blanket or as a bear or a cat or something and bites me? i think ...i think... i think I'm having the dream but I think Ingrid is actually coming as a whatever. She didn't bite me in the neck. She bit me here you see. Then I get to puncture marks stuck on my bosom.

Mike Dick  1:13:05  

What was your reaction when you actually saw the final, final version? 

Madeline Smith  1:13:08  

Not thrilled. Not ecstatic. But not only that there are photos out there, which fans buy because they are they are issued. Not thrilled. I've never ever made a fuss. What is the point? It's after the fact. That morning or that day, he had decided this is nudity day and she will do it or I'll fire her. I'll get somebody I'll get one of those East European or whatever girls who really genuinely don't mind taking their togs off. And they don't... It was awful. It was absolutely awful. He was ghastly. And he was so rude. And he went around with a plastic salami or or might have been a real salami holding it like that for all to see. He was absolutely.... And I've been told since that his briefcase was full of pornography, doesn't surprise me. The other one? Fine, Harry fine. He was quiet, fat and quiet. But they were they were really, really awful. And the other subsequent Hammer films were much much ruder than ours. It's only Roy. "That's enough, out!" And only because of his reputation, otherwise they would have stood around,  "sorry, we're the money, we're staying."

Mike Dick  1:14:23  

It must have been difficult for him as well.

Madeline Smith  1:14:28  

He spoke he used to speak a lot of occasions when I met him. He hated it. I don't think he enjoyed directing that film one bit. Particularly with us too. I can't remember I don't think he did that there was lust for a vampire vampire circus dreadful films. I don't know if he was involved in those but that's when they got your your Justin Scott's and your other bits into who didn't mind taking anything off? Mustn't they became pornographic?

Mike Dick  1:14:55  

Yeah. Once bitten twice, shame

Madeline Smith  1:15:02  

And it was the trombonist. I need humour in my life. That was what's so wonderful Bernard Cribbins must have humour. He was it was a completely humourless film. Kate was terribly serious. Her boyfriend or husband Jeremy was as to come and sit with her. I mean, I loved him. It was all very serious and genic you played my major and all very, very serious. This is real theatre and making real films and we make it crap. I can't stand it. Anybody that takes that art overly seriously. It's going to be rubbish, you all the best actors. And I mean that all the ones that I've ever worked with are the best actors all got a fantastic sense of humour. I didn't really and and John Finch, of course, decided to be diabetic at that time, poor man. And I was going to audition for some total rubbish. And that's why hammer were very good to me. And they said to John Finch, you've got to accompany her. You got to look after her. We don't trust this guy. And right, they were that blessing. We went out to supper before this evening audition, and he was a swine. He was. And suddenly, clunk, he fainted on the table. So he didn't accompany me and I had to get him home and I didn't know where he lived. That was real fun. Having to shake him awake in the cab, get his address, and oh, he was out. He was in a coma. I should have taken him to hospital. But I didn't.

Mike Dick  1:16:37  

Do we move on to please? The theatre? Oh, yes. And that was was right.

Madeline Smith  1:16:46  

Well, I'm shooting comedy. I am still shooting this rather dreadful film. Possibly the day I exposed my bosoms and for some reason, I've been sent to audition in a proper theatre. Not a horrible Hall, that room somewhere, not somebody's living room. And I'm, I'm in one of those that Donald Aubrey owned and I can't think which the new theatre probably and which isn't usual. And I say to the casting director and Ross Thorne look, I've never done any theatre before. I really genuinely don't think I should audition for this. Oh, don't be ridiculous. Madeline. She said Come on. And she led the way. This is Madeline Smith. And this is because they're all up the gloaming there, you know. All Out in the gloaming is Charles marovitz. terrifying figure. American. Barry Broad, huge black beard, Bobby, great, but bomb, he got his own theatre, the open space. Somehow Donald Aubrey has hired him to do this film. Don't ask me why it's not the guy I would have chosen but anyway, he chose marovitz. We rehearsed in the YMCA, which is now a terribly posh hotel in great Russell Street. It was a dive. dirty, dark green, dark. That's where we rehearsed. And we rehearse long, long days and are very exhausted. Paul Eddington who is starring in it, no moved marovitz But marovitz had great methods. Him He insisted that he witnessed us knowing all our lines, and then banging our legs. And Paul said to me, I did that at drama school. And I'm not ever doing that again. So he didn't we were tiny, tiny little cast. Carol McCready, who is still alive. Had a character partners cleaning lady or something. Remember, Royce Mills sweet. Did a lot of pantomime darling boy put them into carbon with him. The other guy was good, Jonathan something and me. And that's it. Just a few of us. And Charles walked us into the ground. Then we arrived in Guilford for the final rehearsals, and there's not a boy or a girl. And one of the plays is about this dreary collection of people. Odd we have a dreary deciding to have an orgy. But the person that decided to have the orgy was my character. So matter of it said to me, right, we've had all this boring conversation over the dinner table. And suddenly you leap up. I know we'll have an orgy and you rip off your bra and you throw this up into the flies. Eventually after half an hour. The flies come doubt when the audience go home. And Paul said to me if you do that, I believe in this show. I'm doing so I didn't. But this is all coinciding with vampire lovers breasts. It's the sense of saying, Oh, I don't care. Do what you like. I don't know why this happened. You got all these new chosen the West End suddenly breast bought is pubic hair, you name it. Everything hanging out dangling. In my, to my mind. Totally unsexy. Totally, it became anatomical. That's my opinion. Anyway, I think what is covered is a lot more sensible. But that's my opinion. But anyway, everything was in the doldrums. Films are in the doldrums everybody was watching telly. They weren't going to the cinema or all the cinemas were being turned into studios. Theatre was failing. Was the was people weren't going I can remember some years after working in the play now. They couldn't fill the matinee at all I remember it was just a few seats taken and we were given comps, every matinee and I couldn't even get people to come to that. So so don't ask me why I think it was the tele I think people were so besotted by their Timmy, that they failed to go out. So I think this is I believe in my own little mind that this is part of what is happening.

Mike Dick  1:21:31  

You moved into tell him that yet with another lover. A good series His and Hers

Madeline Smith  1:21:37  

Well, a casting director Maureen Briscoe or in Briscoe, casting director for Yorkshire came to see blue comedy and its other half madly in love and liked me enough to cast me opposite the wonderful Tim Brooke Taylor, who went on to do who was in fact preparing for the Goodies then and a lot more interested in the Goodies so the ever was in his and hers at a lovely actor Ron Lewis, a very unhappy actor, an actor who should have been a lot more famous than he was a marvellous marvellous character actor. And I forget the name of the Darling lady. Lloyd Webber Mary. Barbara Murray wasn't in his and hers was she she?

Mike Dick  1:22:19  

She met them in the scene.

Madeline Smith  1:22:21  

Oh, we had we had the odd guest. I correct myself. We did have the odd guest. We did it. We absolutely did. You're quite right. She may have been in one or something. But we were the regulars. And Sue Lloyd had three bosoms because we rehearsed in a church hall now demolished next to St. Paul's Church in Hammersmith, beautiful church, real ratty little Hall, but it was lovely. And Sue used to sit outside with tin foil. And it was then that I saw that she had a third one in the middle. So she exposed all of it in light and had the foil up to her face. Third was everything. All going days. She was an absolute sweetheart and a wonderful actress. I really loved her. We were a nice cast. What was the premise of living about the lady going up to work and the men left behind but the pineal that was rub loose. She's off in a pinstripes. She was great. And timber up Taylor and I have a really tedious neighbours next door that my hair was scrunched back there was nothing sensible or sexy. There was no expose bosoms. It was all very, your shit at that time was very proper, which go where Jessie eights came from. was very, very proper. And very, very old fashioned. Good. It's like telly. 30 is

Mike Dick  1:23:51  

good scripts.

Madeline Smith  1:23:52  

Great scripts. Can't remember who wrote the ribbon. I don't know. I don't think it was anybody particularly prominent, but that they weren't. They were nice little scripts. We did half a dozen. And I believe without me. They went on and made another series but I think it was a completely different premise. So I love that. I just remember holding my eyes out one day because my cat had just died. And also, I do remember receiving a lot of phone calls and people weren't very pleased that the phone kept ringing for Maddie. But anyway, that's

Mike Dick  1:24:33  

probably the right thing. Because that possibly could have been

Madeline Smith  1:24:35  

I do know I don't know. I'm not sure. I think he was too busy. I doubt it too busy writing the goodies. Because he was he was he was always on the phone. I've got

Mike Dick  1:24:44  

a few and it might have been haven't. Really of Chet Oh,

Madeline Smith  1:24:50  

there was nothing wrong with the scripts. They were great. I loved doing it. I love to go there. to Leeds I love staying up late sitting with the boys in the bar

Mike Dick  1:25:10  

is a cracking one here so it's a bit I'm just very intrigued to see what worked what you make of the next one which was film procedure that procedure and interview

Madeline Smith  1:25:21  

half a day after buried buried up to here in the sand playing Anna called a marshals sister. And then I remember I don't remember anything other than that. And that the next day I went in my miniskirt to the Vatican and was turfed out

Mike Dick  1:25:38  

it was full it was was shocked to grow up. Yeah, yeah, but you just

Madeline Smith  1:25:40  

outside, just outside. So I begged that I could have a car to take me into robe. And all I wanted to see what a stupid person I should have looked at the Roman remains not the thinking betekent but anyway, I went into the Vatican and I was wearing a purple. Purple was every everything was purple, except if it was purple. And so I wore a purple beaver coach and you got turfed out? They wouldn't allow any any mini in the medical. I think that was quite general. Actually. I don't think you could go in decently dressed into any church at that time.

Mike Dick  1:26:19  

I was just intrigued because the script for pussycat was that was Woody Allen.

Madeline Smith  1:26:24  

Oh, yeah, I'm sure it was wonderful. ballsy cat Posey cat. Hi, Matthew. I have no voice.

Mike Dick  1:26:37  

Again, August 1970,

Madeline Smith  1:26:39  

August 1970. Now is that theatre of blood? No, no,

Mike Dick  1:26:43  

this is big.

Madeline Smith  1:26:45  

It was August 1970. Was it? Well, I've grown up in every sense, actually, by then, and it shows and some naughty person, let the bath water out. And then they are again all over again, for everybody to see this time. And it was not a closed set. No. And there were people hanging from rafters up here. giggling and twittering and that kind of thing.

Mike Dick  1:27:18  

You didn't mean those other audience came in? No, I

Madeline Smith  1:27:22  

think they were. I think they were already there. But I hadn't noticed there must have been lying on their tummies keeping very quiet. Because there were lots of them up there. And I smiled it literally my milk bath. Well, the whole story was Magnin Barbara Murray refuses to take any clothes off. And it shows in her milk bath. But we're both in the milk bath. See? Barbara Marie was my mother. She will she won't and it shows you to consider the strips or whatever you can see, you know, it just isn't real. You know, you'd be naked. Would you mind very much if you took all yours off. And of course Maddie ever the obliging Maddie? highly professional percentage. Of course, I don't mind taking all my clothes off. And the baskets filled and everything gets all nicely fluffed up. And so I think I assume we shot some of it. I think my Centurion comes towards me and I embrace him and I can't remember. Who knows. And then I'm probably sitting back in my bath laughing to myself. And suddenly I literally hear this. It's all call the whole lot in I'm making

Mike Dick  1:28:46  

but it was too late. This is a script by nature. Yes.

Madeline Smith  1:28:52  

Who lived at number three Bywater Street, because I had to audition for that. And I got the part and I loved doing it.

Mike Dick  1:29:02  

What were the best bits that you enjoyed all of it? All of it. Because the humour because of the client has to have humour.

Madeline Smith  1:29:11  

can't stand being overly serious I can remember Michael Horden playing himself very drunk. Patrick across the set wonderful he was so funny in that scene brilliant.

Madeline Smith  1:29:11  

Up project cargoes in it.

Madeline Smith  1:29:14  

Yes. Not with me. I loved Patrick cargo I knew him quite well.

Madeline Smith  1:29:27  

What about from Frankie?

Madeline Smith  1:29:30  

Oh my darling Frankie. That's the first time I worked with him and certainly not the last what within oodles of times. And he, of course, is a naughty boy. Very naughty boy. Man. Charge lunchtimes, you'd have everybody standing around, and then he would take his pick of the person to go to his dressing room with him, you know? And if they wouldn't oblige, you find somebody else. He II wasn't a good boy, but he wasn't very much loved by and I did adore him and those those things went on in those days. We've all become so Pi and so boring. Yes, people did have each other in dressing rooms. They certainly did. lunch times were quite interesting. Tea times were quite interesting. And certainly in the evening in the theatre, but yes, it went on. So that's my opinion. Life was a lot more fun. And you didn't have to empty made you. That was another point I want to make. Nobody was nasty. There was no rape. Not that I knew of. There was a mean, I know there's Jimmy Saville, probably in the dressing room next door to me. And that's another story. But in my experience, men were only ever incredibly polite and would never do anything I didn't want them to do that includes Sean Connery. I mean, he didn't push me on the bed and break me. They might not always have taken it particularly lightly. But I never ever, ever had a bad sexual experience. Never.

Madeline Smith  1:31:31  

There was a lot of going on around the Hammers and the Elstree. It was a lot going on.

Mike Dick  1:31:40  

It was a pretty successful film. It was a huge success, but it was falling out of question from the TV series.

Madeline Smith  1:31:45  

It did indeed. Yeah. And I, I hadn't had a part in the on the telly and I love. She's an incredible friend of mine. I love her the lady Georgina, who played erotica on telly. And then I they obviously wanted to completely recast it because it wasn't other than Frankie. We were all different from the from the telly version, which I think was wonderful, is wonderful. One

Mike Dick  1:32:08  

of the criticism of Frankie was the fact that he was much better in the flesh on stage. Yes, because he was a Christian film. It

Madeline Smith  1:32:16  

was much more, you know, off course, and he had to learn everything. Absolutely. By heart. And he did. He's a theatre man. He's a one man show man, showman. Frankie is variety. Really? You pluck you pluck a variety guy out? And you put him in a film and you try to discipline? It's amazing that he did. And I've ended up the front with him. Not that long after 1971

Mike Dick  1:32:46  

Making 71 Doctor large TV with Barry Evans interview. Yes, indeed, written by Phil Ivey and Graham go, Yes. and UK, Susan C. Maxwell, who is fast and loose dogs.

Madeline Smith  1:33:00  

Yes, the best part I've ever had. And the best acting experience I've ever had. I prayed for self actually, which is really rather nice. So I auditioned for that for David, and I can't remember his other name now. Lovely man. He that he was working for London Weekend Television at the time. And he David directed all the episodes. And I played Arthur's daughter, one time, wanted to be girlfriend of Barry Evans in the pot. And every single one was a unique adventure. But the one with the frogs and the tadpoles is my favourite is growing that senior because somebody terribly important is coming over so Arthur has made some cubes and that nice ice cubes.

Mike Dick  1:33:54  

You put a doctor? Yes, he is. He pays a

Madeline Smith  1:33:56  

doctor a GP very rattled, oh GP and I am his extremely sulky daughter. In fact, I'm not so terribly I'm like the real me. And so I'm dressed very modestly and jumpers and Charles's and things. And he is quite gruff. And he's got he's got young stablemates. You know, young locums coming to work for him and to study under him. And one of those is Barry Evans, and one or two others. And so some very big wigs, I can't remember who played it, of course, is coming over that night. And so he's got the ice cubes ready. And, uh, how the tadpoles got in I don't know. Somebody was obviously naughty probably me, but I'm not sure. And so, David, Jason, who wasn't known at all at the time, was asked to do grippit Noises Off stage. But most of all, I remember In rehearsing director David St. Arthur Would you mind very much you know doing that again that scene again? Yes that alright did you make an offer said no I do mind. I'm going home. I shall mill this. This is where it's I shall milk it for all it's worth on the night. I'm not going to kill it now that he's right. All these things are way over rehearsed. He used to grab my hand and say that's an end we're going home. And we'd stand at Stonebridge Park station and watch the cars being cut up and smashed and dumped. So, come tonight, of course you got David Jason during the Ribbit noises. There laughter is indescribable. I remember it's so so well. Probably the funniest thing I've ever taken part in is whoever he was the big cheese finding he's got a tadpole in his whiskey or whatever.

Mike Dick  1:36:00  

I'm just trying to check the director, David. I mean, it was it. What was interesting was, you mentioned that the script and the beauty of some of these scripts a new system is still already grim garden. John Cleese and Graham Chapman. Were both both involved in the tour. A lot of these young guys coming through now. In writing really important that good scripts Yes, you can get your teeth into, oh,

Madeline Smith  1:36:27  

they were wonderful. They were completely realistic. It was dialogue. But you know, we could have said ourselves. There was another episode where at where I was terribly sulky, jealous of our mind. I'm supposedly got the hots for Barry Evans, who seemingly has the hots for some young lady doctor who talks like that. Very, very flirtatious. I can remember it very well. She's making up to everybody like that with this deep, deep voice. And I'm like this eating up. She was super

Mike Dick  1:37:03  

No, I can't find it. Director. I can't I can't find them.

Madeline Smith  1:37:06  

He then went on to direct take me high with Cliff Richard. Because

Mike Dick  1:37:13  

that was something that he said before. Yes. Yeah.

Madeline Smith  1:37:21  

So I love Dr. at large. Always alive audience. Never a stodgy rube always alive. Audience always laughter Always get introduced to the audience. And this is our low. And this is Madeline Smith. Hello. The Warm Up man's doing all this. And I loved all that. Because immediately your heart was pumping. And you were raring to go. I couldn't go cold into a studio. This one they did in the dying days of Tim's which is unbelievably popular. Lee Lee Mack is the star of it. No Audience

Mike Dick  1:37:58  

Yeah, that would have been worth it. Dogs at large was London Weekend. It was so that you get the students on Thames. We didn't.

Madeline Smith  1:38:11  

Yes, yeah, it was we rehearsed in Stonebridge Park. And that's when Arthur and I went down together in the lift off to Stonebridge Park. And there we would stand together. He then went off to Maida Vale or whatever station. I went off to Q. But he always grabbed me. And we subsequently on a subsequent occasion, we did a commercial in Ireland together. And he he had an alarm clock he says he told me he said sets an alarm. When things go on too long. The alarm goes off. Oh, I learned a lot from Arthur. In fact, I suppose the biggest influences on my life to to that date would be Roy Ward Baker as director learning about how stillness on camera particularly feel Don't wave your face about my dad used to say to me, and then the comedy and the comedy timing. Don't tread on people's lives. It wasn't anybody said it to me. It's just watching off. And he always stopped and let the audience build and build and build. He was almost Arthur was almost mine. If you look back at some of those dead dad's arm is it's it's it's it's mine. It's very little coming out of the mouth. Most because most of it he hadn't learned anyway.

Mike Dick  1:39:26  

I've watched Oh yeah, watch the first episode of Dad's Army recently. Watching his performance was just standard in the good, isn't it? The quality of timing is

Madeline Smith  1:39:39  

good if I will. If I learned anything about timing it was from us. And

Mike Dick  1:39:42  

talking about timing 1971 That you appeared in the first ever transmission with two one is well,

Madeline Smith  1:39:51  

I can remember taking the call that I got the part while at doctorat large taking the court Madeline would you take a call in the hall Oh, cool. Oh my Lord. And I remember saying that study PC. It was still better to work for the BBC, even the London Weekend. I mean, it's a little rot, because nothing's better than doctor at large. But in my didn't little head I thought I've seen David Attenborough movies. So yes, and that was a funny one that was going to audition as a result of going for Huey green. WR money, I think, to be a host s. Yes, yes. So I was sent to be a hostess. My huge ambition and nothing but frosty. And he agreed, and he in other light can never remember the name of the other person parodied productions. And frosty was doing everything he did was his own company. And so he obviously wanted to invest money now into comedy greats, and particularly from the frost report, he plucked Barker and Corbett from the frost report. Is that right? That is what's the frost report. Let's give them a show and see how they do. And they did very well. And lots and lots of lots and lots and lots of people were submitting scripts, but I haven't said yet that I got the part not know what I was going for. And climbing the stairs, right up the donut, the BBC and then sitting with the sunset, behind Ronnie Barker. And him very silent man, very, very withdrawn. Pushing a script towards me read that. And I did obviously liked it and was obviously eyeing me. You know, I can't remember who else was ever I remember him. And then that, obviously not very long after hearing. You got it. Got what? And then I had to go for lots of fittings for Henrietta. And of course, Hampton week, which was in every single episode or every single week. I was in the studio every week, but we did a lot of filming in the countryside. end of March. This time of the year. Can

Mike Dick  1:42:36  

you describe again, the premise of Missouri at episode there was a period in the movie where

Madeline Smith  1:42:41  

there were eight episodes and I was the heroine, Henrietta in a mock classic cereal, the values of which were better than many classic cereal I've ever seen. And that's absolutely the truth. My clothes, the sets, the love that went into it. Breathtaking. I don't know that they would spend that much money now. And we did it in country house outside bath. Other locations as well old trains and stuff, but mostly in I think it was Donington Park, which I'm not even sure the National Trust have taken it over in those days. It was very down on its luck. Ren said it was a rancid old house. And we filmed mostly in the top, you know? Really, I've got the feeling it may have been requisitioned in the war. That's what it looked like. It looked like a whole load of soldiers have moved out, you know. So I was dressed beautifully. And the idea is that I'm a young girl, I fallen off my horse. And my mommy and my daddy played by Ronnie Barker and Ronnie COVID obviously put me in hospital. And while I'm in hospital, I have a dream. And I dream about these robes and I passed through history. And so we go right through history, and I even ended up as a 1920s actress little flapper not quite knowing what to do, and I get blown off a train and I have all these adventures and then you see me at the end once again in bed and mummy and daddy come to fetch me I think do they actually got about this quite a quite a muddled end to it. Where you don't know whether it's a dream or reality. I can't quite remember that.

Mike Dick  1:44:37  

It says a day and it actually be just a dream when she wakes up at Hampton with Cottage Hospital after having had an accident.

Madeline Smith  1:44:45  

Well, yes, but but Barker and COVID There's some business with them. There's some biz I know what it is they double up. Mommy and Daddy go off with her in a big car. And then they cut to COVID and Barca sitting on a bench. And they say something quite odd and I can't remember what it was. But you actually cut to them as then my think saying something like I've seen them before. Something like that. There's definitely a quite an unusual end to it. Yeah. And I did the voiceovers in a very high squeaky voice to a reader.

Mike Dick  1:45:26  

So the first the first episode went out on April the 10th. Earliest

Madeline Smith  1:45:31  

Yep. Well, we only finished the filming end of March. So the editor, my salon sniff, sip, sip, sip, sip, sip, sip, sip, sip, sip, sip, sip, sip, sip sip,

Mike Dick  1:45:42  

obviously worked. They worked, but the way

Madeline Smith  1:45:46  

they ran VT and MD,

Mike Dick  1:45:47  

so there was a studio audience for that as well. Yes, we'd have to be

Madeline Smith  1:45:52  

on one of them. I can't remember which one. I'm sitting with these two rows, and a very tightly cinched waist. Not very much up here. And, and I suddenly, while we're doing something with a live audience, we always had an insert, they played it through to the audience, and then we had an insert for them. Yeah. And so I'm sitting there, and I felt this one a pop out. And I thought Ronnie bucket will kill me. If I say I'm sorry, we have to stop. I'm exposed. So I didn't. And so it is there for posterity.

Mike Dick  1:46:28  

And here's you trying to avoid going back into this various.

Madeline Smith  1:46:32  

I didn't want that again. No.

Mike Dick  1:46:35  

I mean, the interesting thing about it was the fact that was the very first one.

Madeline Smith  1:46:39  

Yes, when he wasn't happy with it. Because later, I went to lovely Richard Breyers golden wedding party, a surprise party actually for him. I don't know whether Richard was that happy about it. And Ronnie Barker was there and I went straight up to Ron is always lovely to see you again and all this. And are you going to repeat it? No. He said, I wasn't happy with it at all. I don't think I was ready. Oh, that was very good. We weren't good enough.

Mike Dick  1:47:10  

Wow. Because that was the beginning of you know,

Madeline Smith  1:47:14  

I thought they were fantastic. Did they get big audiences for

Mike Dick  1:47:19  

it? I don't know. The audience figures out imagine that would be huge. And

Madeline Smith  1:47:24  

we also had, we also had a little singer called Tina Charles. We had what he called pens, people in those days. I think they were there. I think they were hot gossip. Were little dancers coming in all sorts it was it was a it was a variety show, in which Barker and Corbett were never happier than when they were dressing up as ladies and joining in these mad dances. They were brilliant. I mean Corbett for Colbert was ready made. He was so nippy.

Mike Dick  1:47:58  

Brilliant. Right 1971 Were back in back in movies. But comedy movies good. The Magnificent Seven Deadly Sins. Yeah. Directed by Graham Stark. Yeah. And the main premise of that was the tickets. The film takes us through seven short stories later, on the seven deadly deadly sins. So you appeared with courage you Robinson, as to newlyweds, yes, great memories.

Madeline Smith  1:48:28  

Memories are that Graham Stark said to me. I don't I don't pay anybody, which is of course, a lie. If anybody, everybody that's here, I've invited to be in this film. And this is what it is. And I'd like you to come in for an afternoon or a day or something. And your reward will not be financial, but I shall take some photographs of you and my God he did. He took some stuff. I've got them still on slides. I've got the hope I've preserved them hope so they're in the dark anyway. And he said and that's what I will do. So your composition and of course the photo session so you got to see quite a lot of me. He was quite a naughty man. But he didn't he didn't do anything rude. He would Graham push things just that far, but no further just you know if that's the window and the glass, just almost up to the glass but not quite. And so the idea is that I'm trying to coax card you Robinson into bed and card Europeans knew. We got separate beds, I think in this thing. And I start peeling off my bra or whatever. I was wearing courses or something and peeling it off. The idea is that I'm tempting him. You see, he doesn't want to be tempted so I'm gonna be tempted. I'm the temptress.

Mike Dick  1:49:48  

So it's sloths as the as the title and written by Spike Milligan

Madeline Smith  1:49:53  

is brilliant. Some wonderful inserts with him. Brilliant. Is it that he is the idea of that guy. Do you Robinson is too lazy to come? I think it might be that he's too idle to be bothered something is something ridiculous like that. Yes. And I'm Yes. Oh, yes. And that's it. Yes. He was absolutely emphatic that that nobody got paid and everybody was doing it for love. The question I will ask is, was the film ever a success? Where did it go out? If at all?

Mike Dick  1:50:32  

I mean, it had Marty failed losing his bit of Butterworth Graham Stark. Ronnie Barker was an as well I know he was. I've seen it. Can you imagine Ronnie Barker doing it for no

Madeline Smith  1:50:47  

I think I was the only idiot that I got. I got some very nice photographs

Mike Dick  1:50:55  

right on the in the same year that

Madeline Smith  1:50:56  

we have our grandson, he just kind of hang around all the time for rich pickings. Who could he pluck to be in his film? We made it and we managed it didn't he? Obviously ran all his friends are come on every day or get it done in two hours if you like. Excellent, very talented. Very

Mike Dick  1:51:24  

1971 to 7190

Madeline Smith  1:51:26  

persuaders. What's persuaders? 71 Yep,

Mike Dick  1:51:32  

that was TV series for ITC correct entertainment. With Mr. Roger burr wife, Mr. Tony Curtis. Oh, I've

Madeline Smith  1:51:44  

always adored that man. Oh, boy. He was gorgeous. And

Mike Dick  1:51:49  

that was written by Michael Petrie who wrote the scripts for the scent and danger man.

Madeline Smith  1:51:54  

Really? Yep. Danger man. I love st was sweet as well. Of course

Mike Dick  1:52:02  

it was that was Roger. Roger. It was first sir. I

Madeline Smith  1:52:05  

couldn't remember a lot of publicity about it about or will they get on and bringing him over and all that? Oh, I don't know. And then rumours that they don't get on. They got on beautifully. They loved each other. That it is ridiculous little scene. flouncing around where anouska Hempel and I are pretending to be poor little bolt. Nope, no, not not in revolting. Oh, we're pretending to be Nicola Padgett, Nicola Padgett. And this ridiculous little scene where we have a sort of quarrel. Because we meet up because we're both trying to pretend to be I don't know where spies wherever we have a nonsense. Very sweet. And as a result of that. He Roger car, he cast me in the bond. He's it.

Mike Dick  1:52:59  

We'll move on to that. Yeah. We well. I mean, the character you played was Carla, and it was series one, episode 13. The long goodbye, right. And here we go. Bret and Danny accidentally come across the crash site of an aircraft and with a low cost high grade synthetic fuel formula, which attracts a parade of oil tycoons. And in brackets, like considerate daughters, all claiming the formula. So I'm presuming you are one of the considerate daughters. And it was transmitted on the 10th of December 1971.

Madeline Smith  1:53:38  

Watched anything I was in,

Mike Dick  1:53:40  

I presume, but did you meet Roger and Tony?

Madeline Smith  1:53:46  

Tell me well, they were absolutely utterly adorable. Both of them. And Tony Curtis. Had a very nice girlfriend called Lesley at the time. They may have even been married and I was invited into their trailer. They have a separate trailer full of works of art that he'd been buying. Yes. His etchings. Leslie was there and he was such a good boy. Oh, I did like Tony Curtis. Or or I did fancy him my God. I did. I loved Roger. But I never actually had the hots for him. Thank God. But I definitely with Tony Curtis or he was heaven, actually. And he was so nice. equally nice. They were they were wonderful. That's all I can say really? See, the more Roger directed it.

Mike Dick  1:54:33  

He didn't need it was I think it was the first first thing he directed us. Really?

Madeline Smith  1:54:36  

We did a good job. Sure. That never looked flustered or worried you wouldn't have known. Yeah,

Mike Dick  1:54:42  

the episode was directed by Roger Moore. Yeah, I think I think it was probably the first one he done. Maybe wrong in that.

John Luton  1:54:50  

Although he did direct the scenes,

Mike Dick  1:54:52  

did he okay. Yeah.

Madeline Smith  1:54:53  

Did he Okay, that's not correct.

Mike Dick  1:54:59  

Rob Yeah, no, no, it was probably probably me jumping to conclusions.

Madeline Smith  1:55:05  

some considerable time before it was it was way back. Yeah, it

Mike Dick  1:55:08  

would been about looks much more old fashioned. Yeah, I would say early 60s When we must be but I

Madeline Smith  1:55:13  

don't know about early.

John Luton  1:55:16  

I was an extra all the safe.

Madeline Smith  1:55:19  

Yeah. In 66. So actually a few years before.

Mike Dick  1:55:24  

Yeah. Good. Well so far. So we have everybody here is very knowledgeable at these sort of things, including John Lutonj, you will find

Madeline Smith  1:55:33  

Roger lovely. Roger

John Luton  1:55:34  

Moore was incredible to me. He never forgot the line. No, never. Yeah, the photographic memory.

Madeline Smith  1:55:42  

He did. Yes. Very bright, much brighter than anybody realised. It always thought because it was pretty it must be fairly thick. Yeah.

Mike Dick  1:55:53  

QUESTION muddy. And as a result of your appearance of the Two Ronnies, and 71. You gained a famous admirer. Do you know who I'm talking about? appeared in the sporting life. Oh, which areas? Do you want to talk about whom

Madeline Smith  1:56:09  

I have written an article? Lovely man. Lovely man. I just I couldn't have dealt with it. But I don't like the way that I finished it. And it was really stupid. I was so gormless, I look back on on myself. Up until then, I look back on myself with nothing but regret just for the way I behaved. Just a silly scared little girl. I think he got ahold of me. Did he ring me when I was in a plane? That was Rod Stewart. Problem. I think he had

Mike Dick  1:56:48  

seen you went to Iran is as I understood, not quite that. Yeah,

Madeline Smith  1:56:52  

I think he knew that Michael Caine was interested in me and was waiting for Michael Caine to spit me out, obviously, for the real girlfriend to come back, which I didn't know about. That's happened to me several times. And so having spit me out, or just not contacted me again. We didn't get on it. All that much. Actually, Michael Caine and I. He then approached me. And I can't remember how but he did. Probably one of his minders or something. And a car came and took me I don't think it ever took me to Cannes in Durban took me to the Savoy, the flowers and that kind of thing. I think the car the cars always moved seamlessly without him. I think he always stayed at base, except the ones that he was great. The ones he did come. And that's where he went in my garden. Now, my dad happened to be there. And they got on and never stopped talking. Irish poets him on my bicycle riding up and down going over things over roofs and Heaven only knows what else to pull my jumper down. And he was a sweetheart. He wrote me poems. He would ring me up. And then of course, the booze kicked in. And one night he rang me unbelievably late, from location where he was filming the snow goose with Jenny Agatha, directed by Patrick Cargill, not Patrick, Cargill, Patrick, mother, Patrick Patrick garland. And he was absolutely out of it. And I thought and he wanted, he wanted to summon me down to where he was filming. And I didn't and I couldn't. And I made some stupid raw boned excuses or whatever. absolutely awful. I regret it so much. But I just thought I can't it just seems it's such a floozy to go down on location. I mean, what will you be wanting with me? And I didn't go and I regretted it. That's another one I've regretted ever since bitterly. Crush

Mike Dick  1:59:10  

Merrill, was transmitted in February 1972. And there were nine episodes and 919 episodes. Yeah, half an hour inch. And it was directed by Michael Mills. And it was written by Ray Goldin and Alan Simpson. The gods. Absolutely. And it takes place in France. It's based on a French comic novel about the erection of a public loo in a small village, collage marrow, and it's starred sort of CUSEC Roy the trees when the Hillier Kenneth Griffis, Peter Ustinov and many others, Hugh Griffith and it was shot in location. Now Don't be interested. Do you remember where it was short to the village veal

Madeline Smith  2:00:02  

frosh, we I said, it's not the big deal for us. We stayed in a tiny village for us. I'm not quite sure where exactly what exactly he chose. We lesser mortals were in a smaller veal France and rather than a small village, and not absolutely certainly wasn't far away.

Mike Dick  2:00:21  

There were two. I mean, one is called Columbia.

Madeline Smith  2:00:25  

I think it may have been which

Mike Dick  2:00:27  

Nestle's in the Beaujolais region of France. Correct.

Madeline Smith  2:00:32  

It was gorgeous. And Pete, and the old folk was still dressed, like Victorian era. I mean, the actual townspeople all going around in black net.

Mike Dick  2:00:42  

It was it was set in 1922. Yes, that was there,

Madeline Smith  2:00:47  

but didn't but in in real life, the real townspeople were actually dressed. You know, they got We got about 100 or 150 years ago. It was so an old men were in real life playing boo everywhere. Oh, it was wonderful. Michael Mills was marvellous. He left me a note saying are the letters are you for Clooney? He liked to peep take people out on outings. Oh, yes, I am for Clooney. So once you want to ask about it, because I can go on forever.

Mike Dick  2:01:21  

Look, please do please do. I mean just your memories of working on such a million

Madeline Smith  2:01:24  

reject millions and friends and friends erupted from it that I've still got. I loved it. Michael found me in the BBC bar. I don't think he interviewed me that he found me there. Or may he may have said can I meet you in the bar. He was that Michael Mills was in head of comedy. And it was his swan song. He was leaving the BBC and tricking over to Thames. And he was determined to spend all their money, all their money on taking the most famous actors and the most expensive actors he could find. Pick them up, carry them over to France, which he did. And they all stayed there for weeks. I was there for two or two and a half weeks. And he said it was cheaper to leave me out there. And he offered me the part of the girlfriend of a poet, young poet, and we elope that's the story. And then I'm also the daughter of the ugliest couple in the village. And he took wolf Morris, who was a lovely character actor, not pretty, very nice, but it made him look uglier. And then he took a very nice actress called Elizabeth something and I can't remember other name as my mother and stop warts all over her face. Or stop is cheerful. So they went around together like this. Oh, we're sort of coming out a church in the thing. And I will walking along with my little hat on. Although my lover comes out of the shadows because they don't approve. It comes out of the shadows and passes me a letter. And they're like, and then of course they try to get it off bail. There's some passing going on quite a funny little scene while we walk down the street. That's a lovely little scene we did. So essentially, that's it. That's the story. They're all little epistles within the big story. The big story is the fact that everybody in the village doesn't want to know about this urinal stuck in the middle of our beautiful little village and there's outrage the mayor or everybody you know, all this that meetings and all sorts of things. Can't remember who played what part but rider trees with beard and wobbly teeth as well played a vicar. I remember who used to go around on a bike. Lovely, lovely Christian Roberts, part of the Milk Company Job's look lovely, handsome actor. He played the love interest. Then they had a French actress called Kathleen huvelle, who played also some love interest and beautiful said Haman, who played more love interest. And then you have the little characters which was me and Georgina moon, and Bertha Breslow, apart from those big stars, so we were heavy with fun, and laughter. And the only one who caused a bit of trouble apparently was Ken Griffith. And I remember Reuter tree saying to me, Oh, I've got to go and deal with Ken who's having a breakdown or something very tricky, very tricky. Actually got to know Ken Griffith asked me out once. And, and he was the only one I think other than that, I think all went very, very smoothly. We all had a ball. I can remember being driven around France. Christian Roberts took me up a mountain. And we went on a lovely chairlift in the summer swung out over the fields, Grenoble. Oh, golly, it was nothing but fun. So I my scenes were topped and tailed. So here and here, eloping down a ladder. Like that, and in between nothing but fun. The whole time. I was too busy. I'm telling my mother, I'm too busy to write to you. I'm still busy. I'm so occupied. Seeing the whole of France. Reuter trees took me a few times as a Michelin starred restaurants. He was he was studying how much of my wages Can I see? I think he was doing a thesis on that one. And he had brought over to France, his ancient Rolls Royce. So he was drafted, Roy was terrible poser. So he was driving everywhere in this Rolls Royce. He had on one occasion I remember Roy had punctures and all the tires you know, because it was it believe it or not. I don't know how it is now but France countryside France was very um, made up. It was still extremely rural. And that's what of course appealed to Michel Mills so much. And I went to a caravan Cabo or whatever you call it, little bit of wine tasting, and came back in a mini with with Christian and David quilter. Who played my lover, seated seated between or bumped bumping along behind me in the Mini was my dozen bottles of flurry and mom and marvellous wine. Yes, I shared them out well shed some of them out. And I also bought two pictures which I've got upstairs in my in my bathroom. Two big pictures. Also how are we crammed into this mini I don't know but we did and stupid because they paid my plane fare why the dickens that I come back in this mini but I did. So

Mike Dick  2:07:04  

the beauty of it was beauty of

Madeline Smith  2:07:06  

it was the fun. The trailer there with my lovely makeup lady. I've got a photograph somewhere myself with the makeup lady. I took lots of slides which are somewhere of that of that experience. I absolutely adored being in it. Got to know a lot of France and went to a place Roman a wonderful Roman place. That was fantastic. It was it vn vn I fell in love with VM. I remember the bells in Vienna made me cry. They were so beautiful. Huge amount of Roman stuff there. Oh, why? Best time of my life? Little affair. David quilter was busy having an affair. I was busy having fun. Oh, it was great. The thing is when you lose your virginity having lost it. I wouldn't say any more on that one.

Mike Dick  2:08:09  

I think we'll cut it. That's a good place to start.