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Speaker 1 0:05
The interview. Copyright is invested the British entertainment history project
Unknown Speaker 0:14
understood.
Unknown Speaker 0:16
So could you just give us your name and your job
Speaker 2 0:19
title? My name is Leslie go Getty, but for much of my career I was Leslie Reed, and people know me as that really. And my job title is a film and television casting director for supporting artists, and I also cover. I'd have covered photographic work, music videos and training films.
Speaker 1 0:47
And what is the main job of casting network? How does, how does it roughly work?
Speaker 2 0:54
We get a brief in from a production company. It's very much done on who you know. Somebody will will recommend you to somebody, and they'll then get in touch that part of the film industry still exists where a lot of it is word of mouth, and they'll give you a brief or they'll send you the whole breakdown for the crowd, for the film, and ask you then to send suggestions over for the different roles. And you have to to bear in mind, if it's a period drama, the costumes that are available, which are all small sizes now, the hairstyles of the time, and we've got modern things to think about now, like face piercings and tattoos on men's necks and women's hands and false nails. So there's so many things you have to rule out before you actually suggest somebody, because they can't have any of that walking on a Tudor set.
Unknown Speaker 1:58
And were you based in London? I used to be based
Speaker 2 2:01
in London in the days where everybody was office based, the place to be, in central London was Soho, very much the center of post production and production offices. But that's changed. Now you can work from anywhere now, because everything is done digitally and electronically, so you don't actually have to be where the action is, because you don't even meet your clients. Now, really,
Speaker 1 2:34
how did you choose artists? I mean, do they have to have acted experience from a stage school, acting school,
Speaker 2 2:41
I ask them at registration days, my team will ask people what they've done, but we don't have room on their individual profiles to attach show reels or spotlight numbers and things like that. So very much of that work you have to remember. You just have to have a good memory. When you get a casting in and they want someone who's good with dialog or comedy, you have to rely on who you spoke to at a registration day.
Unknown Speaker 3:16
How many answers do you have on your books?
Speaker 2 3:19
Then we also have the use of the database owned by the entertainment partners company, and we use their portal of their back office services for invoicing and paying our artists, and have done successfully now for over eight years. So I would say we have, but possibly eight to 10,000 in the London area. I don't really do location casting anymore. You used to go out and get people who are local, but now people are registered on databases all over the country under entertainment partners or individual agencies. But I would prefer to know who I'm booking. I think remote booking is a bit dodgy. I'd rather have met people either at a registration day or on set.
Speaker 1 4:24
Can you please tell us about the artist, background, trade union, the FAA. How does it work with central cast,
Speaker 2 4:33
the FAA are now part of BECTU, a bigger union that covers mainly crew, and they have a trade agreement with the producers alliance for cinema and television, and we use yeah act, and we use their guideline, pay, pay rates, because everything is set out over time. Me. Breaks change of costume. Take your police uniform, and it's far simpler than just quoting a rate and then finding out they're going to shoot for 14 hours and it's a flat rate and they have and they're not paying for a change of clothes. And they people don't realize that without that agreement, they could be paid 20 pounds a day, and they they're not very supportive of the Union. And I think, although you don't have to be a member of a trade union anymore, I think they should. The artists themselves should support the union more, because they wouldn't get paid what they get paid.
Speaker 1 5:41
Let's go back a bit. How did all this start for you? What was your first job? Then? How did you get into the industry? My
Speaker 2 5:47
first job had nothing to do with entertainment. I left school and I worked for a fruit import export company in Spitalfields, which was a dump then, but now, of course, it's so fashionable, and then I worked for an accountant in Regent Street, and the other secretary who worked there knew a woman who ran an agency. And when I'd had enough of figures and just the boredom, I went to the agency and they got me various temp assignments. I worked at ITN Saatchi, Ogilvy, Benson and Mather, so a lot of experience in different companies, but all media related. And then one day, they had a permanent job that came in, which was at central casting. And I went along for the job, and because one of the partners of the agency was very friendly with the chief executive of pact who wholly owned central casting, they didn't really see anybody else. And that's how I got into it. But before that, I worked for a year at rank video center in Waldorf street, and I absolutely loved it, and I knew that was the place I wanted to be for my working life, the excitement and that all the boys, it was always so exciting I couldn't imagine working in the suburbs ever again. That's Yes, yes. Film house, we we work yes at video yes. And then, when I worked for central casting, we were over the car park in in Brewer Street, very unsavory place. And then we moved to Paramount house 162 ward or street, so I stayed in my favorite ward or street for a long time.
Speaker 1 7:52
Is it hard to find reliable supporting artists? Very
Speaker 2 7:56
much so now and people agency books are top heavy with early retired. And unfortunately, it's the early retired who aren't requested as much. And in the film world, if you're 50 or old, and they are the most that age group are the most reliable people, because they have worked full time all their lives, they wouldn't consider being late, and they're just the most reliable. But as one of my clients once said, we are relying on the unreliables. Young people don't take it in general as seriously, and it's like an option, should I get up, shall I go? Oh, I know it's a four day job, but oh, I'm a bit tired today, and so the continuity is lost. So it is hard, but once you trust somebody, I used to like to use a core team who I knew all worked together well, and I'd use them on lots of productions, and I'd use them frequently because I never lost sleep. I knew they'd all go but now that the productions choose who they want, I have no control, and agencies have no control over the reliability of the people they select. I wish it was back to the way we did it in the 80s and previously and the 90s to where the agency chose the people this, you know, pick and choose just doesn't to me. It doesn't work.
Speaker 1 9:34
It's still called central casting. Or maybe you want to talk about
Speaker 2 9:38
Central Casting is it doesn't exist anymore. Actually, I saw it on the entertainment partners website the other day. I don't know whether somebody's bought the name and are now going to trade as central casting, but the kudos, I think, of central casting has been very. Much diluted over the last 30 years, and people who are working now, both crew and supporting artists, wouldn't even remember who they were and that they had the monopoly for over 50 years.
Speaker 1 10:21
You're going back to Central Casting when you work there in ward or street. Can you give us what say a typical day would be? I mean, how did you know when a particular production wanted people for the next day? Well, we
Speaker 2 10:33
were very fortunate, and we never had to look for work. The phone just rang because we were the only place they could go. There were no other agencies for film and Films Television. There were television agencies for studio television, studio produced comedies and dramas. So people just automatically rang us. There was nobody else to go to, so you never knew who was going to ring. And also, when you did know who who would ring, there was a lot of loyalty in those days. They'd always use you well, they had no choice, but they'd always ask for that individual. There was a much more trust, I think, when you work with someone over and over again, there was a good feeling of camaraderie, and you both bore the responsibility for getting it right.
Speaker 1 11:31
I also, many moons ago, I was a background artist with central casting, and I remember when FAA ceased to be a trade union work that you had to belong to before you got to central casting. Yeah. Can you tell me how that all came about?
Speaker 2 11:50
It came about when Margaret Thatcher, her government, decided to do away with the clothes shop in industries, including the film and television industry, and so you couldn't discriminate against someone either because they were or they weren't in a trade union. So it opened it up to non union people. Obviously, when it was just union people, that kind of practice is open to, can be open to corruption, where just old pals get into the Union and then they used but when it opens up, it did bring in a whole new body of of people who are non union, although I say, you know, I did say to them, it's in your interest to join, because they keep the pay rates up to date and your terms and conditions on set. They had a very strong general secretary, but since his demise, they've had a catalog, really, of not, not such dedicated general secretaries. And the house that they owned in Kensington High Street had to be sold because whoever was running the FAA at the time was perhaps spending a little bit too much money, and then it was amalgamated with BECTU, and they have a branch secretary at BECTU, but who doesn't seem to be as involved as the original one, who was on set, who would argue at pre production meetings, who'd fight for his members. That has all gone now, really, but as I say, they still hold that union agreement together, but they're very much beholden to packed the producers alliance for keeping that in place. So perhaps it's not so much of an agreement, not really 5050, I don't think
Speaker 1 14:09
I remember being when I was a background artist. I did join FAA knowing what good work they did, how well they looked after fellow background artists, but, no, but it didn't take very long for me to tell people about FAA, and a lot of them didn't know what I was talking about. They never heard of FAA. So it seemed the FAA didn't really push their name forward.
Speaker 2 14:33
They didn't, no, no, they did. They didn't change with the times where every business then had to sell itself, be it a trade union or a butcher shop. Every job now includes some kind of selling. You have to, you have to keep the interest. You can't just say I've recruited a few people now. Goodbye. It's ongoing, and people don't do the work for that long anymore. We used to have people who'd been on the books 50 odd years, or 40 year, 30 years. I've represented four generations of one family, but now they'll do it after college, between traveling, think after a nervous breakdown, just to fill in really. And I get, I get annoyed with people who start trying to involve me in their child care arrangements. What time will it end, and what about my child care? And I just think you shouldn't be doing this work. If you have to ask if you're going to go and whinge on set, what time does it end? Shouldn't be there? I mean, it never went on before. Nobody would ask me about a train timetable, or could they have a vegan food on that on some productions. Now, apart from the casting work, you're part of catering, because you have to ask people what their preference is. I can't believe it. Spoon feeding in every sense.
Speaker 1 16:21
Can you? Can you think of any particular productions that big product is you've worked on?
Speaker 2 16:28
I can I worked on the first Batman film, which was shot at Pinewood in 89 Henry the Fifth, also the same time, the King's speech the crown with nail and I, which isn't such a big production, but it's a big cult film, As is labyrinth. That was Tom Cruise's first outing in the UK in 84 they're really sort of too many to remember, which is very nice. You worked on Morse. I worked on Inspector Morse. Yes. Oh, let me think I've never actually written them all down, but Shirley Valentine was one, and on the big some big productions, we also supplied ballroom dancers. And we had a strong link with Horsham dancers club, and she used to supply our ballroom dancers. So we've even had Anton du Beck, who's now a judge on strictly working for the agency as a dancer. There are probably others, but they're not as famous, but we've had everybody really through the doors. Sometimes we've had major main actors, very, very high profile actors, children on the books. Sadly, some of them have come from rehab, and it's a way of rehabilitation, work wise. And we've also had stars or fallen stars, who want to get back in the industry, but that it's a bit difficult, because they can be a bit precious.
Speaker 1 18:33
Was it? Was there a lot of hierarchy? Might have to start this question again. Was there a lot of I know I wanted to say, was there a lot of rivalry between you casting agents to get the best films, or how do you found out what was going to happen in a couple of months time, and so you could be prepared for that.
Speaker 2 19:05
No, you could be sitting at your desk drinking coffee, and you'd get a call and it would be shooting something at Shepperton starts filming next week, and we've got 3000 crowd days on it, and we would just work data day to day. Now they tend to give you the breakdown in advance, but then they split the work between agencies, which I find a bit tedious, because really the core group of supporting artists are with every agency, so they're being put forward by four agencies, which is all to me, time wasting and everything's about time with filming. You know, you have to fit so much in in a day. And I think all this choosing, and they look at different pictures, but they pick the same person twice, because they. Got one picture on one website and one on another, so it's all unnecessary, time consuming. As far as I'm concerned,
Speaker 1 20:09
it must be a lot more difficult nowadays to choose reliable people. It's
Speaker 2 20:14
very, very difficult, and you don't have the loyalty of your clients anymore. They can get a recommendation from a colleague, oh, you should try so and so. Or perhaps they might even get an incentive, which was indicated to me by some assistant directors I'd worked with 30 or 40 years ago who were doing, I think they were working in costume, just to keep their hand in on a big Hollywood production. And they said to me that the agencies, they had one agency, and they called it the nectar point agency, because the more people the ad booked through them, the more points they got which points made prizes, literally, you could, I don't think they were monetary, but they were items that you would get so or perhaps holidays, things like that, untraceable. So there's been a bit of that over the years, because there wasn't any before, because there was only one agency, but now everybody's scrabbling for the same work, so you've got to offer something different, and I don't think being reliable and and loyalty come into it like they did before.
Speaker 1 21:42
Do you service other soaps?
Speaker 2 21:47
Yes. Not Coronation Street, yes. We used to do EastEnders. We used to do the bill, a soap called Family Affairs London's Burning, which wasn't a soap, but it was a an ongoing drama. There was one called night and day. I think it died as a death very quickly. But yeah, we serviced everything. We've serviced crying dramas, soaps, films, anything and everything.
Speaker 1 22:23
Some, some of your essays may have ideas that grandeur thinking, that they will go on to be big names in the business. But is there anybody that went on to be a big name to start it off with you?
Speaker 2 22:33
Not with us? Oh, no, no. No, not, not with us. No, but in years gone by, Roger Moore was a supporting artist. I believe Brad Pitt was as well, obviously not with us. He was in America. But no, they don't. It just doesn't happen like that. Even with the pretty girls, doesn't really happen, but they do have ideas of grandeur. You know, they'll say, Oh, when I worked with Judy, Judy Dench and I think worked with, couldn't lay some boots. Oh, yeah, I've worked with Tom Huddleston or Hiddleston or whatever is Oh, several times, yeah, Tom. And I Yeah, and there's some, they call them the super essays, where they just, the minute they get on on set, they're bragging. I only do this, you know, it's just bread and butter money, but I wouldn't do it normally. I do my featured work. They know they're a featured job in their life. They actually rely on the income from the supporting artists work. And sometimes at registration under profession, they'll write actor, I just put a big cross through it and point to my colleague who went to Rada, and say that is an actor studied for three years at RADA, where did you study? And they get well, I said, a week, weekend, course, somewhere. Well, yeah, no, that's not drama training, is it? But then, as we spoke earlier, of an actress I read about this week, Helena Bonham Carter didn't go to drama school, but she was successful, but I think that was because of her family contacts that got her career off the ground, but she hasn't done too badly.
Speaker 1 24:36
Characters she worked with, characters. Sorry, just personality characters that you've worked got some stories about over the years?
Unknown Speaker 24:57
Yeah, I. Are you going to ask me the question,
Unknown Speaker 25:05
characters? Characters you may have worked with over the years.
Speaker 2 25:11
There used to be far more characters in the business than there are now. They even had their own industry nicknames. There was one who was known as the lizard, all sorts of nicknames, but people just used to refer to them as, oh, have you seen the lizard lately? Or what have you? And we had people from all walks of life, from faded Gentry to one particular man who come to England from Germany on the Kinder transport during the Holocaust or after the Holocaust, and he'd arrived at Waterloo station with just a brown tag tied to his wrist. All his family had been killed, and he had no relatives in the UK, and he lived in a bedsit in North London, and somehow got into doing film extra work, and he absolutely loved it. And perhaps because of his beginnings, he always looked skeletal, more than skeletal, and it was a selling point for him, as he often worked as a dead body. He didn't mind long as he was on a set and with his film family, who became his surrogate family, really, he was quite happy he was in Star Wars. I've no idea what he played, but he used to attend the Star Wars shows for the fans all over the world, even in Japan. And I thought, Well, what did he play? Well, a lot of the storm troopers also do the shows, but how would you know that they were Storm Troopers? Because they all had visors over their faces. But pause going back to this poor man. Say low. It was just he was so lonely. He told us that he wished he'd got married and he'd have liked children, and then when he died, that he really only had the one visitor, who was my colleague at central casting, who still visited him in the old people's home. And when he died, my former colleague rang me, because there was really only the two of us left who remembered him so well and for so long, but he was a great character. You just don't get people like that anymore. And we've almost looked through the work. We've looked after people who've been bereaved or been ill, and always tried to be kind to people. It was far more of a personal touch, which there just isn't anymore. We used to get so many Christmas cards, they would criss cross the office six times. Now you're lucky if you get two, and Noel you're asking for gifts or to be remembered at Christmas or thank yous. But people are far more transient. But I think that's part of every business. Like assistant directors used to be the sons of assistant directors, and their sons became assistant directors, or their daughters, costume ladies, their children came into it in the costume department, all the different departments, camera, um, absolute locations. It was all very there was a lot of nepotism, but then there's a lot of nepotism in the acting world as well. But even that's dying out now with, um, college courses, what you can learn in a college I've no idea that you can't learn actually on set, and that's the way I started. I mean, I wasn't allowed to do a booking for four years. I had to get to know the artists. I did all the admin work, and you're all about them. I knew all about their pictures. But now anybody can start an agency and just go from there. They don't know anybody. But as I said, that's affected other departments in the entertainment industry as well. It's all new people. And then when they realize the hours that you have to do, they might do a couple of productions, and then they can't hack it anymore. They are very long days. And you know, when you hit three o'clock in the afternoon, we used to call it hitting the wall, you really have to take a deep breath to get through those next seven hours of the day to when everything's wrapped and everybody's lined up for the following day. So it takes, it does take. Strength. And also there's sacrifice. You don't go to family dues, you hardly see your wife. There are lots of broken marriages in the business. In fact, I regret so much not spending enough time with my husband because I was more married to the business than I was to him, and that made me very angry when he died, that I finally had time to spend with him, but he wasn't there. So the good parts, they're exciting bits where you see someone you never thought you'd see just walking across from you getting a coffee, like Michael Douglas or Dame baggie Smith, and just the buzz of a film set, there's nothing like it. And also the cruise screenings, where there's absolute silence in the cinema. And then when the credits go up, the round of applause and each department clapping when they see their department credited. It makes you feel really proud to have been part of that team. And that's what it is. It is a team that make a production. It isn't just an individual, and everybody plays their part, including casting for supporting artists, because they're very much part of each scene. They are the the set dressing, the human set dressing, but they play as important part as everybody else.
Speaker 1 31:24
We have friends that have no idea about casting, what goes on behind the making of a movie. So, right,
Speaker 2 31:34
yeah, people don't until they see what goes into it and the detail, I really admire, the costume department, the detail of the drawings and the research they do and the jewelry they collect themselves just to set off people's outfits, and the hair and makeup department, who have to know how styles have evolved over the decades. But it is a team. I remember a director coming up to me on Miss Pettigrew lives for the day. It was with Francis McDermott and Amy Adams, and we were in the Savoy filming a fashion show in the 30s, and the director asked to see me, and he said the people I'd supplied were absolutely fantastic. And he thanked me, and I said, No, it's It's not just me, it's the whole team that worked on this scene and the whole film, of course, it isn't just an individual, and I meant that because it isn't just one person, it's the whole lot. If you've got a good whole team, you've got a good film, it's like anything in life, one bad apple can bring the whole house down, can't you? You
Unknown Speaker 32:44
have a favorite film? What series that
Speaker 2 32:48
I've worked on? My personal favorite film is now Voyager with Betty Davis, but the one of the favorite films I worked on was a View to a Kill, which was a Bond film. We didn't get credits in those days, but it was, it did say extras casting, which is what the Americans call it by, the casting network limited and I still felt special, but I enjoyed working on that. There's some films that I've just enjoyed every scene of, and I watched them over and over again. I was watching Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves this weekend, and I didn't actually work on that one. I worked on the other Robin Hood, but I just thought every scene of that was fantastic. The only thing that let it down was Kevin Costner's wig, but our actors were fantastic. The direction was fantastic, the stunts were fantastic. The costume was fantastic. And you can see why it was a hit. And then, of course, I had a hit single attached to it. There was a number one for about 10 years, but I can't remember any other I worked on mini series Barbara Taylor Bradford's books, woman of substance and the subsequent ones hold the dream and Princess Daisy, all 80 sort of big shoulder pad numbers the book lace, then lace two. And I can't think of the others. There were so many. But I enjoyed the the big shoulder pads, the it was everything was big in the 80s, and it was all very flamboyant and very camp. And I enjoyed those things because they were just a bit too over the top. And I did work on crime, things like serious and organized, which starred Martin Kemp, but what always worried me about that they always dressed him in blue because his hair was very, very black. And I think they thought. Yeah, it was a good contrast, but to me, it just drew your attention to his hair that might not have been his natural color. Oh, I know Elsa. I liked Willow, things like that, with the little people and the essays, they were so naughty, but they, as I say, they all had character. In those days, some of them would build their own little camp out in the woods, and they'd spend five or six weeks out there. Nobody knew. They'd go and get their chit in the morning, go off to their encampment, go and get their meals, sign off in the evening, and the same happens on Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves. That's what made me remember that that's the same sort of group, I suppose knew they could get away with it. Disappeared into the woods and Burnham beaches, I think it was, and they stayed there. But now I don't think they'd have the gumption. I think now they're almost wanting to be spotted themselves rather than stay off camera, that's another thing. Previously, people would stay out shot so they could go back on the production. Now, people want to be seen. You know, they'll say you can see me on YouTube, and it's 39 minutes in point, one second or whatever. And so they're deliberately looking at the camera, but it's a different way of, different way of life. Now, I think, encouraged by these talent programs like the X Factor, where, I mean, how many winners do we actually know are still working? You know, they'll, they'll be a winner for a moment and forgotten. The next year they had the Christmas single. That's it. But why people were so obsessed with that and the voice and those sort of programs, it is a different culture now. It's all about me, and you must have your dreams. Staff in the past have said to me, what were your dreams? I said we didn't have dreams in the 70s. You dreamt at night and then you went to work the next day. But now it's all you've got to live your dream. Oh, don't think anybody's got the money to live their dream, if they only the very lucky.
Speaker 1 37:16
Funny, any funny stories or funny reasons?
Speaker 2 37:24
Yes, I was on set one day of it was, it was Bob Hoskins was in it. It wasn't Who Framed Roger Rabbit flying. No, I forgot the name of the film. No, it was before that. And anyway, they were filming in the Berners hotel in ward or street. And as it was hops getting a jump from the office, I went up there at lunchtime, and I was trying to get people back on set, because they called them back to set. And there were a lot of people malingering and having a drink in the bar and playing cards. And I went up to this one particular middle aged man and said, Come along. Now, get back on set, or you won't be paid. And of course, it was Bob Hoskins, so you had to bite my lip on that one. Can't remember any other sort of funny stories off hand. No, I could just, I'm sure they saw just 40 years ago.
Unknown Speaker 38:36
So what are you doing now then?
Speaker 2 38:39
Well, the business is a wicked whore, and it keeps luring you back. And if I'm asked, I don't seek work because I don't have the stamina and I don't have the health to work those hours anymore. But if I'm asked, if I'm approached, I will work, but it's mainly training films now for financial houses. I work for one production company in particular, several times a year I'll do pick up shots on things. I help another agency out. When they don't have enough people, they come to me so I don't even know what I'm servicing half the time. I realized only recently I worked on bridgerton through that contact, but she never told me the title, and she does a lot of Bollywood, although I didn't have a very good experience on the last Bollywood production I serviced because the person signing people in in the morning was signing them as her agency, and so I probably lost 2000 in Commission, which wasn't very good, was it?
Unknown Speaker 40:00
Yes, 83
Speaker 2 40:03
Yeah, cricket, 83 Yeah, so I won't be doing that again.
Speaker 1 40:11
Well, I think that's about it.
