Godfrey Jennison

Transcript

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SPEAKER: F1
Law effects and Margaret Thompson into the gut begins. This code is b c f K L and S 1 3 4 8 eleven twelve 15 16 20. The data for fiscal February 1991. This is being recorded on God with a machine cassette one Saddam said Godfrey. Can you start in the beginning and tell us. About your background your family background.
SPEAKER: F2
And background. Yes. By the way when in which I was actually born in Leicester but the family came from Derbyshire and my father was halfway down to London as around in his business career in textiles. I was born in Leicester when I was three or four. We moved to London some really before. I hardly remember growing up in. Leicestershire. The name sounds it could have been Scandinavian. Well they say anybody anybody from east to walking straight ensures that a song in this is the old Anglo is in. Yes he said. And in fact the family came from the old east of Nottingham.
SPEAKER: F5
But because we have had a family tree done goes back to our sixteen fifty or something all that new action that way. So that is where the family came from that infection in the modern times is so Derbyshire family. Was born in Leicester I moved to London. So from then on I was a Londoner in 1928. So how old were you when you came to land. Just under 4 free in business space around that age and its inherent awesome Harrison's.
SPEAKER: F3
Would you like to give us a rundown of which have adapted the kind of elite indicators that are in such education as possible.
SPEAKER: F4
If I were to a local kindergarten and a local small time prep school will Hey prep school and then I went for a year or so to high get on top of the hill. But I was I was taken ill at school and finish school. I was only 14 and 15. So I have and I haven't any education since then formally. And that illness pursued me all my life because it was the reason why eventually at the very end and retiring. And it came and went. So I mostly all right. So that was really my sum total education. I'm an early leaver. I.
SPEAKER: F5
Was at my father's in the textile business. He was a manager and ended up as the chairman of quartile subsidiaries and. Worked his way up and he started and then his mother his father dining experience restarted work at I think 13 14. And my mother was at a wall shop in Derby and she my mother was considerably over my father she was eleven years older and I believe her fields originally was killed literally on the first day of the song and then those thousands and so she didn't marry until 1926 and 7 whenever it was and to a much younger child. And he was the bright young man of the small town and ambition was going places so I know anyone anyone any child in my mother from having fun of course too much trouble would. Come to my life. Oh yes very much so in fact too much in a way the only one I think you're over cosseted in Europe. You are looked after too much and watch too much. I came from a family which is easy to say now. The rest of our lives were at daggers drawn to each other and I was in the middle unfortunately that. And I think that's the cause of a lot of illness afterwards. But. That's another matter. But yes no no. I came from a prosperous household and they're very contented on I was concerned apart from that one phantom neighbor. They were in trouble with each other and they denied it. But I can't. Make.
SPEAKER: F11
Any other and understood native name.
SPEAKER: F7
Thanks for having me. The trouble is that this is the trouble. The worst time for a child is not the Rouse in a blazing RV is the silence and they're not speaking more often and it's much more tense arguments very good things to regulate here. No way I cared anything.
SPEAKER: F13
If it had to do with the age gap.
SPEAKER: F5
It had something to do with it he was less mature than I think. Looking back on it and she was honest. Yes he was a bright young go ahead with it. So the championship was already a real adults and she was late 20s and early 30s.
SPEAKER: F14
So I think that made to next next to the office job.
SPEAKER: F5
Ah yes I nearly made an error I just in the I got the impression I was a little nap processing. It was a release print 916 mail. It rejoiced and then in the name of substantive film finish limited substandard definition. It is now film Magic and much more respectable but it was at the top end of Dean Street under OK. I had an office at the top end and decent on the right and we were in the basement. And so I went there as drawing room boy. Stuff coming off the processing and processing line. And then after must have been off for a few months only really I went into printing and went into a 60 vote reduction printing in 35. Even you went into film because I always wanted to do that by being an as I was when I was a kid I always was fascinated I was given a note on five projection films in 2004 and I went to my second school I went to I became very friendly with them. Another chapter has gone into films and Boys Life and shackled margin. And we have actually had a camera. So we made mo vies and great movies. When we were eight onwards I was under the influence with those two men. The chapter moved away. From. Weaving tidy. So anyway I am afraid that was a situation that well we both wanted to get in the movies and have done. We both to the same schools two schools together. Yes he was and how he stayed on we carried out on the stretch for proverbially. And went to work in this little processing lab. So I was only there only a year and a half or something because I then went to crown Film Unit a time into Kennedy's library everybody's home and his library Mr. Pentecost wonderful name and wonderful moment. And I was there in time to a V one it was a very one and on the fields outside of Syria. So that was that would have been the end of 1944. So I must have only been years. And the exact dates. So I went along to Hollywood in the war and we are a film unit was there largely based on the. Army Film Unit of most men.
SPEAKER: F3
Can you remember any release the names of the people you like while Israel show them.
SPEAKER: F5
Well show me a lot of John from power all in the film. Quite a few. There's a wonderful song library was run by a Comanche Elliott when it comes to me. It left me with. An injury of some kind and he ran the sound library and into which I went out for a few months. I was his assistant. Some. Years. Ago and we were in the cutting room at the time and. That's how I learned to handle film ready and that on the land. I think there's a lot to be said up physically handling the material. This is a great thing. You get a feel for it much more than just. Being behind a piece of paper. Yes it is and. So. Yes we used to have the German newsreels every week and only a few days later from Berlin. And it was always said and this is not a truth. This is only as far as the word must be apocryphal that they were exchanged in a café in Lisbon neutral Lisbon. And a gentleman at the British embassy used to have one table every Thursday whatever it was in general and the German embassy is on the next da y.
SPEAKER: F13
They put two brown paper parcels down a wallflower to pick up their own lunch and we have the door open and shower to the swastika on the front. I mean the British navy is that's just what we were told but I think probably the real truth is a better that much more very brave people getting them out of Belgium in.
SPEAKER: F5
That town. I think it was something that I have heard it so many times in different sources and probably the beginning of a truth in this story.
SPEAKER: F4
Anyway we used to get rich and we read a lot of them and try to understand the German commentary. By the end of the war it was. Very. Brutal formation in the German newsreels and were full of nothing but endless defending the glorious race against the communist hordes backing slowly through parliament. And it was the beautifully made Israel before that and I said after the war I met a German newsreel cameraman who worked who said that first being very German for six weeks or more after the end of the war and the occupation of Berlin I carried on making it never to stop them. And the reason there are there are said to be newsreels with swastikas on the fundamentally forbidding way after May and in 1945.
SPEAKER: F3
This I felt was the extent yes.
SPEAKER: F4
One apparently that they couldn't cover any story. So they just saluted 1942 fashion for Asian penguins and deserving them. That's wonderful.
SPEAKER: F3
Here they think they're the ones that were getting after all.
SPEAKER: F4
Oh yeah well they're all from Liberia. I mean that's where you get all the material from. We also had agile efficient domes and big ones the moonshiners and so on. We had and we had MNC and the golden stars and fuel big fish and nitrogen made during the war. I had a conscious policy of handing Germany because they didn't have the American supply we had food and they had to produce films right to the bitter end. Big entertainment was reserved on. And they were making great escapist musicals and romantic love stories and right. And the famous story of the Russian pilot who flew over East Prussia towards the end of the war looked down and only a few miles behind the front and found. An 18th or 19th century battle going on and there was shooting this huge feature film about Freddie Gray's Anatomy. This can be checked facts and I reject the. Within a few months and one released in the last week of the war and then one cinema repugnant musical Cobra adjourns for Christmas. There was a famo us siege or something and everything was going wrong for Prussia and finally something rescued Prussia forever and they were withdrawing troops from the frontline to appear in costume. We're really where. Man. Man. Anyway would feel if they had a very big film industry is still running right now in the region.
SPEAKER: F5
And they put a lot into it. So that was. The Crown Film Unit Production neither. Do I want to carry on it okay. So then there were there was a vacancy in the camera department so I went over to the crown the camera department two or three times until the RPF another serving in this body and we were the civilians and we had a large camera for. Us. And. I think seven cruisers chief Tao had to be in the head of the department. He no longer was having some. Problems. And Jenny Jones was ahead in the car. And I was Dave's father was the maintenance manager of the department. And.
SPEAKER: F7
Then the attention was out in the Far East and there was some I'm trying to think of names. There was a pause and I just going of course was the one I think of names the other names I was trying to think of were Teddy captured and Freddy Gammage as there were five can increase so Jonah chip foul denigration friendly damage and Teddy Jackson and the cameraman and then all the crews and then asked me about twelve fifteen people in the department. The other names I was just trying to think this is after a pause Well it's so Arab pop was also in the and he was a sort of exterior of him. No to operators no Roland and Bill chest. And a number of the systems Eddie tilling and Eddie Harris one or two more. Really complements.
SPEAKER: F3
I say good. Do you remember any of the films information the nation with that.
SPEAKER: F7
Vast number being camera involved we went from one to the other every other week and I really can't identify one particular more I must say my memory for crowns films is not very great. It is just a haze of locations. Online production being identified with a particular production and camera department dates and the lack service yes the delay just coming in and out all the time in the end. So the answer is no. They take an age to try and remember a lot of different productions is natural especially now as a clapper loading disparate personalities. Well yes or no James Colson again during and just after the war and whether. He has made in the country the cutting room there was a sound. Yes I said. We're running down my name from the line. No I have a terrible weakness for names I can't remember. I know people with their names. So for the purposes of this recording we are the bad names.
SPEAKER: F3
And if you thing has been truly unsettling. Never better. This is not. Doesn't have to be a full stream of reminiscence. It can be an allegory about the land after it has made a list of all the facts which you can not see what the men in bracket 19.
SPEAKER: F7
Right. Okay so right there I'm in the camera department. This is getting towards the end of the war. V to a v 2 Yes fill. There you are finally. Yes. Just over the far side of the admin block from the firing range all the windows are broken and everybody had glass in their hair and everything for days. And you know we found powdered glass inside closed sometimes. For weeks until next to entertain the whole library and this is game at the film the whole library.
SPEAKER: F10
Because it is find us dusty and it's really named back some that marked nearing the end of the war. I was 17. What do we do here. 44 16 is engineers in this country. And so I went into the camera department as we said before. I know just for the next few years was in the coming months. In fact I was in the camera department until Crown closed in motor roads 52 in 1952. And I got to be a regular focus for an hour and a bit of operating at full time. This cameraman Danny attention came back after the war from the far east had been out in Southeast Asia and none of us and we only knew of him we didn't know him the young people there because he was away at the time when we were joined up and became advance and I became his assistant which was a good thing because I had got very low and very demoralized for various reasons and he was a breath of fresh air. He was a very good cameraman to know why. I would just like to say that my experience for camera. The.
SPEAKER: F3
Lives that they had been there too long. The men the beheaded. Hierarchy. And then he was absolutely eager to dare to say something lively and wonderful and he took terrific risks and a very kind man to sort me.
SPEAKER: F7
I've known him up to the present day here. He is still unwell although we now talking in the early nineties and until I retired a few years ago he used to shooting pictures which I was commissioning at and so nothing more. So where are we. How would you like to lead me onto some other line. Well I'd like to make it to. Packing up.
SPEAKER: F13
And welfare's crown.
SPEAKER: F12
We all know we went to Beaconsfield a couple of years after the war and I think that that was in itself a death crime for me. I thought about it a lot after. I always say site in creating some truth in the statement that the films of Dozier and glacier and board more and more boring behaviour. It was too well-equipped it was too stuck on bricks and mortar. We remember we had that stage quite a large stage really hardly ever used and we had a huge staff and shippers and all sorts of inefficient rules of the game hardly ever year as people sat and we in the camera sat around playing cards whatever. It was it was getting stale and stay around and picking up an earlier point. I think you made that conversation. People have been there too long. People have been together too long. Right from the days of the Obama crew boom and GPO case and everything then moving to primary general identifies the environment. And the sound department wouldn't speak to the camera department other than throug h the production office and everything they all remember what somebody would say 10 years before all of the jealousies in the kitchen. This is ridiculous and it's an awful thing to say. I think it's true that the best thing that ever happened was that it was closed down. And John Taylor. With whom I lived and worked and worked a lot and more much more recently as he was one of the producers in charge of crime agreed and he really thought it was. He said not the concept and the concept was very good but the actuality the unit itself was the data and data and stable industry. The next two years at the end of Crown as early will we should say about comes. Are well as far as I was and I was I had a recurrence of my famous illness and as mentioned earlier when I was out in the Far East some years later with Teddy cancer. And was shipped back there was a search on the services. And the day after I left the unit and was shot up Tony Shepherd was shot and one to start with great insurance f rom some and and in an ambush in the Malayan Civil War troubles. And I missed it and unfortunately a more sadly the chopper went into my place. There is an army photographic sergeant in Ghana beat second to help out with getting the system. He was killed saying Mr which is very bad but. Teddy had was as far as I know still has been let inside take it out. But in the meantime major operations. This was a business from crown after crown. This was all promise and this I was going to get onto another appointment just finishing up on Teddy Campbell always had heavy emphasis always taking into houses and it's six months after that awful event. He was standing in the camera having come into work vacancy and I said I suddenly realised I had got any else.
SPEAKER: F13
Only the bigger disaster was raising I suppose that of blacks all the way there.
SPEAKER: F10
The reason for his training often Sideways was that some years I was shipped back and without him I was not working for a month or two. When I did they were just opening up a little animation with crowns I that over and I was the rostrum cameraman plus sort of general factotum and manager and we did a lot of. Animation not cartoons. I would do so animation but. Only done chromatic stuff and globes of the world and then and then of course a lot around here and a husband came to come to me having come to this country in the next two three years after that. And they were taken on and did a lot of silver select from Silver for us. And so I was working with not for long time two or three years and at the time I knew her until she died and was wonderful she'd been so auntie to our children. And she was a fabulous character and her husband was just as famous as we knew it well I didn't know well and I have these incredible adventures at the end of the war.
SPEAKER: F4
We have just come in again after a pause while I was recollecting some of the stories about not her writing. Yeah they she. Was we all now I think was a great figure in the 1920s in Berlin and made the first almost first feature length. Animated Film the country which is of interest to Prince outmanned was making a lot of films during the 20s and early 30s but then of course.
SPEAKER: F10
The gentleman with the moustache arrive and depart. And they were slightly on the left sort of moderate socialist and both them and they had to get out rather fast and they went to live in Paris where Karl worked with Renoir. Quite a few films including Andalusia. I must say I was going to do what he did. When I think on the god delusion when he was as a military adviser because even the German army in the first world war but then he got to writing and having to lead the regular teacher. He was a co writer and in my experience a producing and a lot of things and a lot he was working in London for four people including I think I might say the GPO film in and before then they were in Paris as war broke out. Additionally he had not joined in the war in the first three months and they went with Renoir to Rome to make a film on Tosca. Then of course there was the invasion of France Italy entered the war. Under Mussolini and against France and Renoir had to get out very fast. We can't fini sh the film in Rome. And they were in Italy during the middle of the war years and the Allies landed in system in southern Italy. So they are to be interned with the Germans so they move north. This is a story as I've heard it a lot of details have to be checked. And ended up in Venice and there came the moment when the allies are being so close and her mother is still in Berlin and the Russians are getting Venezuela and she very worried. So they've got a very last train over the Brenner past which is troop training and war is still going on. Change trains in Munich to one which said it was going to Berlin.
SPEAKER: F8
And course about 20 miles outside Berlin. Gunfire going on also mingling with the injured drivers any longer any more. So they got out and the train is just getting on too long. There's a lot of allegations and they got somehow separated I believe this is all cars and Lot is slightly varying versions of the same story. A lot of walked into Berlin and found a mother and living in a cell rooming house. And starved them for a few weeks and then Carl was wandering around the outside world and trying to get in and literally the dying days of the year right. And of course the SS man and military policeman working on Australian people and then that they were fighting the Russian hordes. And he was called into place and interviewed and he said he'd been captured as well. He was in the first world. So they said well here's an armed band in a steel helmet and a Franco Prussian war rifle and two rounds of ammunition with the Russians over there and that he and some older chaps and he was a youn g man there and some Hitler Youth sort of nutty crazy every you were. Sent off in whatever direction by some of the older chaps got together that evening service. So he was sloped off effectively. And then he wandered around a bit more and. Standing on a street corner in a suburb somewhere near Berlin. And a lot of Russian and Soviet armoured cars came down. From a. Running Asiatic troops leaving out with vodka bottles and schnapps model citizen. And they all stopped. And the lead. Gun turret turned round and facing over two other people standing in the same room as the Russian machine. You've been watching us those spies stand up against that wall. So they must begin this war and just as they they swear the Russians are going to fire. A staff come up with the Russian generals to start flying them from a woman. Major got out through the ADC to this Soviet general walked over and said Karl we haven't met since before the war in Paris. And she'd been in the Russian Embassy and there i s a camaraderie and the general garlic on the Volcker bottles disappeared that already tried to do so but he he said Get in the car. And where do you want to go so fast. Well my wife was heading off to get her mother at this address and they drove for the last few days of the fighting burning through the German lines in a Russian stamped out with a red flag on the front to their house and a deposit and then knocked on the door. There's not. And they're generally Russian general came a cardboard box full of cans of spam. And they stayed there. This is going on a long time.
SPEAKER: F10
I hope it's not too much. And ought to be taken as being third hand unsure details. And knock on the door. The fighting died down horrific. Russian tanks were running over there and troops in front is a familiar refrain. Too.
SPEAKER: F8
But a knock on the door a week or so later when they got rid of the spam and were starving again. And then the Russian military police.
SPEAKER: F5
This is cow cock here. They've been registration. So he was taken away in the middle of the night INAUDIBLE. That's the last you should see him. And he was taken some miles to what became the eastern zone and kept waiting for hours.
SPEAKER: F10
Senior Russian officer I said Well we found your Gestapo dossier. Did you know that they nearly got you in Rome. I nearly got days. And so on you were just a day or two before. And they said you had been dead by now. And. Politically unreliable. They said that this meant Europe or the US is and we can offer you a job running manager or whatever the new radio station. So we you know we're about show business.
SPEAKER: F8
And so is a show on the show. There is one snag is that in our current form the only country where any cigarettes and women. I said I'm afraid we'll have to pay you in Swiss francs out of our embassy in Vienna.
SPEAKER: F10
May I already locked them in Swiss francs which was incredibly got a huge and everything in West that there is no war. And they worked in East Berlin. But a few years later he had started having political arguments. Then he arrived at his office one day again all this is subject to checking and a note slipped under the door saying you've got half an hour. Somebody know. So you just gotta do it. He left his coat and hat and in said. I'll be back in 20 minutes and I understand that it's serious. And walked out and went to a phone box rang Lottie at the flat and said first one to get to the scene for the first one get get there buys a ticket for anywhere in the West to dry up. And that's how apparently. Or something like France or in lines. They arrived there and they were looked after my chums and I knew. A grandstand. And then I didn't. I was you know his general countrymen with age five six movies. And I was still running that animation if and when the one in this. And that was reall y the sort of tail end of the to read and part of it firsthand. A lot of diagrams from other people's movies. It was all dotted lines and arrows stuff. It wasn't sophisticated animation.
SPEAKER: F3
Right. Do you remember a things that people like that which we look at. Not in the car.
SPEAKER: F10
She was very maternal motherly and he was a very intelligently simple man. He was fine. How nice it is to deal with people who are uncomplicated but very intelligent. And he apparently has been met not because he wasn't. I think again to be checked he was on. A lecturer at some university in modern artists or 19th century art. He knew all that Monet and Manet and everybody else in the first impressionism interesting. And knew a lot of them as old people really vision. And he somehow involved a lot in through that. Sense of the. Early work in films before. We were married. I think this after the end of the first World War she was as old as essentially so she was 19. And she was very motherly and solicitous of young people. So I mean like children she she's. Known. As I know identity. So. There's. Probably a problem. And he was her she was a talent and he was the support man. He was a champion. Womanizer and. They did have a connection in this country. And later we're talking about the 50s and 60s with the son of the banker who had put money into films in Berlin before in the 1920s. And apparently the father had 10000 names and their names very naturally. The father had supported her monitor friendship and took money but then came the importing invasion of Ramanujan three or four or whatever.
SPEAKER: F12
And he realized the thing to do is to put such certainly billion marks a day into making movies for the movie is their own value whatever. And then in 10 years time if every man in this room said he was paying for having friends art made in front of the audience during that enormous. Inflation. Period. And so they got out of it well at least some movies which were then valuable and he made money back home and the son lived here. After the war. For there I think generation that all had to get out. And secondly. 4700. And. Even helped her set up a little company after family and friends and made quite a few more for television.
SPEAKER: F10
Over here. They got her new citizenship too in the end. So she had a British passport as well although she went back to it she was very ill and dying to Germany. The German government I believe sort of paid to go back to Spain and she got a German Declaration Towards. Students criticism. So this false.
SPEAKER: F3
Impression had the impression I got lost that he was their selfishness. Yes she was saying she was the star.
SPEAKER: F7
Yes. And he was the symbol. But of course in Paris before a war could have been the other way around because he was became the sort of number to bring about a Renoir and make modifications to. Yes. So nothing interesting was Monsieur and anecdotal thing coming up. There was a marvelous moment spent in a restaurant and V or wherever there was shooting. One of the forums together and they were talking about the first war on Roma when a fighter pilot and he was shot down and he still had his flight log. He kept it off the war and made a prisoner of war which would actually I believe the origin of the film. You know this the I mean. The one I just mentioned in the prisoner of war and that's. We're gonna lose it. And is all all and experience and colourful while I was on a section in France and I was an anti aircraft battery has an identical pattern. And he brought his battery life I mean it was the same day and it shot down the spine visor on that same moment of the day. He must have sho t him the.
SPEAKER: F13
I was wrong. They convinced each other that Khalid showed up to prevent another attack is extremely strong.
SPEAKER: F2
Anyhow it's kind of what we're talking about. Well something well. This is after a pause Yes for great applause and we've had some thoughts.
SPEAKER: F11
So your next question next question would be is when compared. That was quite classic for some of us. And you and I have some thoughts now. Well Asian as far as Crown film unit goes. I think it was originally it and its predecessors.
SPEAKER: F6
Pioneers in many ways. Certain predecessor the GPO film unit and the Empire marketing board before that. I think they had stayed their function frankly and I think that a large permanent government film unit.
SPEAKER: F15
Had become a difficulty when smaller film companies were growing up all over the place. The nature of filmmaking itself was changing all the time. I don't think it had time. I had my own view is that. Given that the war had been over for seven years or whatever it was at the time that it was a.
SPEAKER: F6
Long term good thing that it closed down. I think the reasons for it being closed down for a very political and not unconnected with the Conservative government were bad. I think by chance it was the best thing that happened a lot of people I think with so many of us would have ended up our lives as endlessly employed. Civil servants Ray and so on and gray minded people. Also the unit itself. By that time 1952 1952 when it was closed was becoming very stodgy internally everybody is like everybody else. Nobody would speak to each other. It had gone on too long. All the same people going around it had enormous facilities at Beaconsfield and moved to a beautiful set up not a camera that I know of in my own department but never used ridiculous and large facilities for set building pastoralism and I not classes carpenters all sorts of women were hardly ever used it was quite ridiculous. We could all work from the middle so square and injustice just as effective and half half across. So I think it was probably in writing and speaking to people a year or two afterwards and just looking at the tape there I thought it was and ahead and speaking to people most people from the old country and a couple of years time said that probably that was rising was based on so many had done a lot better. They've moved it shifted. I think if I speak selfish out of state in the camera department forever I have been waiting for the older cameraman to retire before I moved up. So I think having said all that rubbish I is probably. But it is in other ways a great change. It's in my own case two or three of us from Crown from Munich plus another been decided we want to make our own movies where only youngsters in our early 20s and I think Bob Angel who was all of us who was several years older than the rest of us was Arthur Wooster who was in the camera department with me and there was a complete upside and nothing to the crown an old school friend of mine did he know it was in the custody rooms and was subsequently become a very big feature of the. He was the fourth one and we started a little outfit that was called from publishing. And.
SPEAKER: F14
It was an amazing start.
SPEAKER: F6
Everything seemed to work very quickly and within months we were making and I gather that some of the films were made for the CIA in the early days were part of a deliberate policy of giving Ferguson members of the company. Yes we were told that afterwards. I think that term and which is the same much bigger than us originally was given film because of its crown from unit past. And even Ray Evans who was living in a garret for them had been concerned about conformism that the company was giving money to films early on. To some I think it was a matter of policy. But nevertheless we were of films made for me to do very well so that. We broke away and we didn't regret it really. We lived on the breadline for years before it started. We were paying people much what we were paying ourselves. But that's the way the companies do that. So you have some relationships. Involving. Well a later year. Some years later anyway we we kept on expanding and were we were capitalized it always was our o wn savings were paying bills out of income. And it got ridiculous. So much for working and we had made one or two films for the movie his own company which in Puritan films. And we went along and talked.
SPEAKER: F16
You said you put money into it so he became the chairman of a much better finance towards finance some company largely money I think from his newspaper which a tiny newspaper in emerging local papers to change his mind. So. That's where it all ended up. Prior to that we had bought in capital from one or two other non-food people now. Capitalizing on the biggest problems in small business. And you know none of us talking to the people then involved now and in the 1990s. None of us regret having done it. And I did. It later as I went to much bigger companies and very much bigger in the last case my company that very few people have run their own business very few. And it's so concentrated mind Thursday's tradition and the awful day when you pay everybody on Friday and nobody pays bills properly. Even the biggest sponsors never paid rent. To. Charge. Of money. And. That's one aspect that so many other things it really does concentrate the mind it actually have to make the film on budget on schedule because it's your personal. Areas today and you've got to get it right.
SPEAKER: F9
That it can make some money.
SPEAKER: F2
And you can amazingly few people who do it. Yes.
SPEAKER: F6
Now that it seems those days when I have we'll get onto this later I have to watch the end of this tape in a minute. Since those days I've been on the other side of the fence and the sponsor for many years and the number of film companies rocket up start up with talented film. A video as well to film the video makers who have no business sense at all and all collapsing in tears and a year or two and a owing people money is somehow or another. The film maker isn't always a good person to run a film company.
SPEAKER: F16
You often have to have a hard nosed dour Scottish accountant to actually point out that you've got to we've got to make a given return on capital invested in movies and things which you must do no good getting excited about making movies that we will not pay everybody anymore. I mean you're nobody's friend then whatever other viewpoints on. The fact that your father was. In business. With the company.
SPEAKER: F6
Not directly because he's just watching this tape. Anybody who's listening this I'm know I'm going to watch the end not directly and they will say yes. Yes. No not directly. I didn't have much to do with this business my future as somebody who came over my evenings and weekends. No I don't think so. I think you better make the announcement at the end of the road. In the end the sad one percent line that begins.
SPEAKER: F16
Right and turnover at this point I would say that. So you know

SPEAKER: F22
So. There's still.
SPEAKER: F2
Some partnership. I think one of the ways we grew fairly quickly from. Contributing in a positive tone to the CMI began to make quite a number for an industrial sponsor. The first film I ever made was when crimes committed was still in existence. And last year only to shoot for 20 minutes shot at London Airport. And it was the size of the big new mansions and a lot of them British European Airways. And a man from the company that made the huge folding doors in front of this vast. Cathedral. And. Said did they know anybody making a film. So they knew Bob angel or the Western has ever been talking about. So they rang us up with. We still were coming from the vehicle and shot the other evening and we got a film and it was 400 pounds the budget black and white 60 reels. And it was all about the mechanism and they locked me an enormous store and they used to be used as a met some years later they were still using. Because they. They just use this as an animated lantern lecture where there 's always somebody speaking the language of the country they were in they were running these doors all over the world worth printing. I'm sorry. In recent days predictability if you know what it is everybody talks about starting from Canada nobody does it. What you need is actually something tangible something to work on together. And that did it and it was a silly little thing. That. We never regret that further because it made us what made this country. I. Have a little little agreement with the labs for processing and so on. And it made us think about terrorism. After that there was a lapse. And we were. Looking for business income flooding inequity and we will freelance to them gradually work did come. There was always we arranged for the board of one of us and our little office and our own a back room. And gradually where we come in and slowly we withdrew ourselves and went back in time for company. We made some sale items to start with enough in size and classification. That.< br> SPEAKER: F12
Way as I was saying before recording as we were very short we had no capital we just had our own savings literally few hundred pounds between us. So we had to merely pay our bills from income. And this got out of hand. And certainly we advertised in the times and we got a South African gentleman who was living in London with his wife and then. He was a charming and nice to the films of all Negroes and thousands in the metropolis. They helped us expand it we moved to Wembley studios. Still. Fox. And had. A Cutting Room a couple of offices and then moved to great courtroom straight at the top of enforcing street. And by that time we were turning over a lot and we had made one or two films for a company called Virgin country. To. Office. And it was run by Richard Dimbleby from his newspaper office in. Richmond and we went to him and we were really running short of capitalization and even a lot of money took over 51 percent of the shares. We kept our original. Expanded. The show and we w ere properly set up then of course Dimbleby put all his contacts bought in. Big films. Making. Films in the West Indies for change and. All sorts of things and so.
SPEAKER: F5
We were off. But if we're still talking about business we fell into the fatal error of overexpansion. We were. Hypnotized I think looking back and by trading and not my Profitable. Profits and a dirty word which really is entirely respectable. And got my point anybody's made wrong. And profit means a return on capital investment with nothing else. And we weren't doing. Well. We were. Not paying ourselves properly. I think everybody else but not. So. The. Two of us left. I. Myself. And. This. Other. Non film person for the corporate it was looking off the office. We left having been paid out by the movie shares that double the assessed rate independently. Because. We. Got an assessment the valuation. Double which is not. Very nice man. And I got an offer I couldn't refuse from meaningful use of film a studio manager of National Park after. 18 months. And then was producing.
SPEAKER: F7
So that was the end of the business story. So in partnership but I think we're just talking about three days before we record it. We.
SPEAKER: F3
Just started after the festival pretty much everything. And. We went in with a company called stereo techniques which had been started by Ms Spotswood and others. After the closure of the festival. Can I say something. Awesome. Yes. Yeah. And they had taken over the equipment and the camera.
SPEAKER: F6
And they've started this company insiders taking stereo techniques so we put up 50 percent to make it and the faithful filmed travelogues. And we made these films and.
SPEAKER: F5
Because of the way things were going there was a short time when they look so freely was developing. They started building one or two more cameras in Los Angeles said their technician a chap called Charles Smith went to Los Angeles for a few months. And luckily I sort of got the gist. They trained him mathematic to one double standard and much. From him and from. Reading the script to him. And so they asked if I could be a 3D look after a while. Charles Smith was in America so I went on I wanted to. There are other films which are nothing to do with us. Charging the fee for me. So I went to Spain. Three. Short Films in Spanish. And then we had the coronation and within three days. I sat. Saturday night on the Victoria Memorial like a lot of other people in the country. And. It was a. Great period. But we all know it all collapsed in tears. In the end it was too complex too. Complicated. And having one or two minor revivals of reasons. With nothing. Great. It was. Interesting at the t ime. That the British 3D films. Were. Shot properly in mathematics. The optical mathematics and been worked out probably about. And Nigel sponsor Raymond's brother. It isn't. An optical engineer. And they always look better. Looking back on I always look better than the Americans when. They were properly aligned they did go across items. Through. Very good. I don't know. Why I didn't think of more about the days that followed you want to an anecdotal story and the one hand we have now on this occasion where.
SPEAKER: F3
Just after reading good things. Just when we started to do things more than before but before we come into the country. And he was going to shoot a film or later whine about Lake Geneva coming up for BBC Television on his own back in his own company and he asked us did we not. Contact we did the shooting.
SPEAKER: F8
And not the worst. When I was in. Camp. Two it was only shot 60 they'll tell crap before any of the euro crisis. We took a 16 or 17 connect special agent and. About a third of all the shooting.
SPEAKER: F3
He was set up on a street corner in Geneva and a car can not take off if it smashed. So they went to a photographic shop in Geneva and out of nowhere experiment. And shot that afternoon I believe Geneva airport. Takeoffs and landings. Put the camera in the boat and. Drove along the lake. I remember the other in Montrose. The next day.
SPEAKER: F4
Had dinner in a lakeside restaurant came up the boot of Reno coming the second camera. So my mom Ben didn't even know a full camera shot the rest of the picture. And of course it was kg so you didn't see Russia for a week or began to send them to Kodak. And it is like amateur movies. And when they got back we saw the first on the Russian military side. The second lot came on at the airport. A shot at one afternoon everything at the shutter that failed on the camera and it was true it was a favor later for the third camera. Perfect. If I hadn't had that second camera stolen a live shot up over my shoulder. Well yeah but you know something at the end the Swiss police circulated a all over Europe where all the processing lands to look out for any material from the camera or the shutter outright. And they got it in Germany. Months later they got. And. It still stands. Never never never on the stolen income. So that an anecdotal story. I wish it went no where we expanded a lot. And. Over.
SPEAKER: F3
Expanded. And. It all came down to earth. And then we. I think I said earlier two of us left the company went on for three or four more years. And wound down respectively only available to pay them. Actually. And I believe it still exists and probably registered with richer newspaper office in daily. Then we can look after it. I don't understand any business for years and. I know. They counsel. Students to some extent. If there was years later I know for a short time. Was he the one that ended up in prison. Stewart I think it may be him although if I got the name wrong again Ted. Stevens was an Irishman who did the French Scott. Yes you're right it was but does it assure a. Short. Of here. We had a guy who ran into. Several. Categories. Did you. Yeah. And then the chat room. Yes I am. I think he overlapped with me not being there I guess. But the ones are we when we grew and grew we are butchering a terrible state. I needed a proper council. Sometime. And we had a recommendation from Disney in Europe. Disney Europe. They were just finishing production. There was a production account I could can given the highest recommendation. Luckily I have forgotten those names that I've met. That. A few months ago he arrived a reorganize all my books. Now listen is suddenly finally realized we were making profits and losses. And I came back early from lunch one day and you've come down two floors up and down the stairs with a large jet on the watch chain. No boots on the cover is and I'm just leaving for a meeting with the manager I may not be enough this afternoon the pope had a phone call from the police station and he had invented for music sessions to the NSA designed for Disney and it had only come to light in the individual account to change all the chips himself. He. Ended up in the scrubs. And. So we post French news they look we got our own auditorium and he looked at all the books and we lost a few pounds. Very fashionable. Is. This type of thinking often cited. A date. I know your name. Is. Essential. Yes. You are right and I think it must have been when I was about to leave. Anyway.
SPEAKER: F6
I tried. You. Know. It was kind of busy at the. Time.
SPEAKER: F3
Of me one day and years later talking to other people in the business not least the military as it was improper use of guilt. They were saying we were kind of worried too and you know.
SPEAKER: F8
We were taking a lot of business away from them and were quite anxious. So is there anything else field. I'm just watching tape and I also want to talk about. In partnership with the thing. I'm trying to think.
SPEAKER: F3
And I think the main thing to sum up is that I never regret about all the things that have happened. I rarely regret it and I think that running your own little business is a very good thing. And now as in all your priorities sorted out and not necessarily the right priorities but at least the logic and then narrow logic. And. You do. What we were making movies is a reasonable standard a. Decent old fashioned way documentary Standard. Within a year after leaving accounting for a third of the budget and for. Half of the Michigan.
SPEAKER: F9
Of the same film. And if you I don't know if you've spent to John Taylor. On this on this project. But. He made a horror horrifying story of terrorism. The crowds for releasing the overheads you had to carry day then the hedge and other parts of the sale I ended. Up you just put a colossal percentage on the direct cost of the time. And I also remember this is reverting to. Spending weeks away from Beaconsfield. On. In and South By.
SPEAKER: F7
Just floundering about. No no shade you know date space and the crew of be shining on waiting for the director of the asset manager to make arrangements to shoot next week in the mines and nobody cares and nothing was. Organised before.
SPEAKER: F6
It was considered at one time. Great movies are made in the cutting room floor amongst thousands of people rushing to work. And we got down to working in the. From the convention. Centre from. The perspective of doing something. We were making quality previews it all was. A very short.
SPEAKER: F10
Time and place the Royals were right where we were. I'm sure it's great nothing. Well the best thing is to say we never bother too much about new units. So let me get this started. If I leave to ring up and say Is it all right if we don't size up maybe two or three people all Polish time I should stay. There.
SPEAKER: F11
So cute that you don't understand them they mean. You had to get go and. Get started. And we all paid properly paid promptly and we didn't have much short career at all. I think it's useful to ask. Once we got going. More. Than anything would be better than that.
SPEAKER: F6
And basically say if you own a shop steward says it all around my neck. There's. A man made.
SPEAKER: F11
Disaster. I always say it should be a high paying industry and I informed him. Well not quite so much in terms of detail. Clearly. They did get to stay. I remember I read some of. The all the floggings about how the people you're going to take on a trip and I decided that they were ridiculous. And now it isn't just confined people's hotel rooms and tickets or. Anything. That they don't. One person missing next hours and some. Not just. So much more than I already think they should be a proper industry pension scheme contributory or whatever contributed from both sides of employment. Which should be topped up by your employer and half topped up when you were or something like that. And make everybody feel as safe. In the industry. And then you could be much freer detail clearly not having to stick to the letter all the time. And I think. I still think that. Is. A lot more flexible these days. That. Can. Sustain. The. Financial.
SPEAKER: F7
Muscle. Luckily. Relatively late. I. Got a. Phone. Call. Thank you. Yeah. But I thought the raise issue that they were taking it take the fear out of the situation one way. Or one of them. Maybe they planted those transport. What. If nothing else. Happened. So way. That was our film coming up and I stayed down to that.
SPEAKER: F5
Nineteen sixty sixty one. And then I left. And. After just doing same job things freelancing I. Was called up phone by. Our. Vernon's. Who's the managing director of. The old company you should be able to build a house. And. But I don't see them. They wined and dined is over I like to manage your merchant of. I went there.
SPEAKER: F4
And that was about the worst 18 months. It was awful. And I've never understood. It was. A studio which was making I'd be making all those old make the Wallaces in England. Now. And back to back production. And we'll go into bigger things. And a generalized education. That.
SPEAKER: F12
I know was too small. Had enough concerns about a temporary cluster of. And. Then suppose anybody or hear this would remember that they were what was left to the rest of the industry. I spent nights sleeping in dressing rooms. And. At. Night building going on on that one and a half stages and they're trying to make a major feature made the criminal and what sorts of things in some ways as if one that was a motivating for organizing was too small to cope. Managing production. And it was very nightmarish. I very often got mad just for home at the weekends. But. I sat on top.
SPEAKER: F1
Of that. But. Yes there were. Other plots. Etc.. Don't do. That. Now that we've ever used. So. Visit. The.
SPEAKER: F2
Market. The other problem from my point of view isn't totally self centered. Spain. Wasn't the managing director of the studio company. Was also the producer of our feature films in the studio which meant he made all his own priorities. He just said Oh that other unit out we need that station to set. Checco Geoff Greenwood. He was under great pressure. I met. The minister. And. Rather management. Of the company. Where. I. Was going.
SPEAKER: F13
And nice chap but he in the midst of a major feature film. We had not really very interested in some poor little girl's documentary subsidiary wanted to come in for two days in a bank and the chaos that caused us to be cruel to other people to find him another studio to shoot in quickly. Is everything. And in fact I realised after a long time the whole of that group. Aggressive to something comes along and it wasn't until. I had the problem the Crown and I noticed. We all knew after tackling crime. That. They were carrying the overhead seven pages story on their documents with not enough on the deal was also expensive. Well. It was kind of a colossal overhead an. Unused video time. Warner Center in. Downtown park. There's an unreal set of accounting. I'm a great believer in there being proper cost centers. Each of which I. Reach out to make. Marginal doesn't. Win and if it doesn't. Why not go up and define a facility for the day. Why have it in the first place seem ridiculous to me. And. That studio is being kept going by money coming in from all the industrial and commercial function may not rest. And. Many. For. Money. To.
SPEAKER: F7
Work very well. Well so I had and. Just over a year. The year. And a half and then I went to a guild house for a few months on monetary pictures Verity. And then I went to technical and scientific countries and I become very straight. After them. And they were technical and scientific and. Not. Subject matter debate about me. And.
SPEAKER: F12
So many other things as well. Chekov deadliest war instrument. He was a. Chemist. To. And I had a very good time. And. I enjoyed myself a lot. About. Four producers of bleak directors and writers and. CAMERA CREW OF OUR OWN AND EVERYTHING.
SPEAKER: F7
Whether they were. No they're not the mechanisms. There's certainly a man called Terry Fitzhugh. And if anybody's heard of him he was. Quiet he went on to make some very modest very good.
SPEAKER: F5
Semi scientific subject films. But he was a great amateur genealogist and he retired who is often retired when I was there I think and he went into genealogy and he did in fact our family tree as a dry run.
SPEAKER: F13
And so I've got a beard and he just died. I saw a picture in the paper a few weeks later. To. Charlie French's account.
SPEAKER: F12
And there are others. And we used to kill facilities once. And we made a lot of farms. A lot from the old Richard Thompson Bowman steel company. So. You put out the stream of the new. And you. Still works on an open site. So we shot two to three years and this built. On a lot of routines. But then I was on some film from Monsanto. American chemical company. Some years after that and I keep on watching the tapes to run and I was on vacation in North Wales.
SPEAKER: F8
And a phone call when I got my hotel from the girl in London saying can you seriously Monday when you were back there find out in November. So I went to see if I can lock up Smith who was the chairman. And he said I had been asked to recommend somebody to an oil company and then it.
SPEAKER: F13
Did. Do you want me to even mention no names and I'm sorry to say as long as you like but it seems a good thing. Sighs Because I think if I could sum up I was always a competent hack director producer writer I never made it. Into the Hall of Fame. No I think I'm being accurate and I was always the one who got frozen in under budget and under schedule names but I won't say any films are really worthy of saying that. And what I did. What he did say was what I like to be put forward in this film. It turned out to be a show mix and BP is supporting. The jointly owned by Shell and by BP as a marketing. UK and then my predecessor was a company manager at the film and even moving on and being promoted. And they wanted somebody from films I went for an interview and they offered me the job.
SPEAKER: F4
That Tuesday or whatever it was on that set for half of Chalmette house in Australia and stuff like that. I said yes so life's 18 nearly 18 years. And I completely went over I became a gamekeeper for my A and swapped hats and having those animals as a sponsor new family sponsoring and your time and I found it intriguing is it actually confirmed a lot of my. Lifetime prejudices.
SPEAKER: F14
And thoughts about. I had to come to the conclusion over many years that film makers are very rarely in any kind of touch or that ultimate audiences as various. We knew it couldn't get. No that's. Probably very true and in the history of industry. And somehow or other. In. The. The.
SPEAKER: F15
I use the word documentary knowing it's wrong but it's an easy word here. The documentary film production and she got very out of touch at long time with. One can sneer at the commercialism of. Video and filmmaking today and. So narrowly aimed at things but at least it is 80 percent of the race it is selling something to somebody else. And all the things that I had suspected about the use in films and thus the production comes forth as well on the home. Confirm. What I discovered. Because. Getting into sponsorship we have this distribution side and we have the biggest not the actual library country to show film nobody wants to be used. For. And. You can see the films and work. To. Either by the occasion going to see the show school.
SPEAKER: F9
But also by seeing the comments on the returns from the audience of the all bookings and a return sheet to people and budget making. It wasn't a pre set up and I just wanted to make any comments. There's an open question. And it did confirm in my mind. Something that I had previously thought might have been my own limitation speaking. I used to previously think that film makers tended to make films of the capital F and not community and not communicate as such. And it became more and more apparent to me and after some months and years of looking at all these film library returns. And response of. The films which were the films which knew their audience and addressed therefore. Strangely enough having addressed an audience of only a few hundred people maybe it was.
SPEAKER: F7
A marketing film on some marvellously lubricant. If you do address a few hundred engineers that are ever going to give that lubricant or. Advise on this purchase you make a film which is so much more honest unto itself that other people are not happy to see the worst of all worlds. They should try to make films all of these everybody inventive popularize something. If you are again using a Friday that the doing Scottish engineer you don't want to be talked down to one detail you are happy to see elapsed time events taking their course. You know the wheel going round the way. I used to say and film makers would age to get the scissors an obituary can endanger or put some music I reckon is a famous movie. And. It wouldn't convince anybody that was. Supposed to be the audience store and funnily enough it wouldn't really impress even the non-specialist. A number of times I see very specialized movies that have pleased. A totally different audience. I brought a copy home and showed it to neighbours and they were intrigued by me wheels going round and kind of curious inherent honesty that I never worried too much about. So we were running a bit of what I would and other things over a long time. Because they were another thing I found there's very little relationship between awards at festivals and was. A real success. Very.
SPEAKER: F10
But there again could be said that it was defensive and Alma Awards that I went you. It's easy to think that but I think looking back on it it is true that.
SPEAKER: F15
There was a festival wedding film and the film will do its job. One of the tests is however that from state distribution. Have. A real golden oldies audition. You're not still running that effort. Yeah. A demanding and I don't want to remake a store. They rarely use it in the ground.
SPEAKER: F4
It's a lovely thing. There was a classic case of my clients tell me if I stayed on the subject. It so happened that BP had made a new. 35 Malaysian culture losing drama of all things cutting flights Thursday evening and cutting metal. Calling. For.
SPEAKER: F18
And he came into our show mixing people. We took funds from BP and Shell International and I wrote to the three sources at a time when we had already had already any though show rich and beautiful about having friends. And. Step. Back. And you allow yourself to get an audience takes time for the bookings.
SPEAKER: F3
Then they can be said to have an impact. That old black and white already separate aero show which may be fine according to all the cooking. Time. And you've got gold at somewhere silver somewhere else. And it's important the truth to be very interested in fundraisers and say beautifully Bangla star photos and I think a lot of people. In. The wrong people were given films to make to the wrong people but. Instead. They. For.
SPEAKER: F1
It. You have to be the blue eyed boy either. You get. As. A test. Statistic. Or it should still be doing something. Is that wrong.
SPEAKER: F10
Yes it was a sort of holy grail wasn't it. Everybody remembered nightmare. Nobody ever made and I'll never forget for the next 30 years people were trying to make my own destiny but it made a deal for. The. Better.
SPEAKER: F1
That's very impressive as it makes it a replacement for me. Did anything about.
SPEAKER: F16
That. No I what I did was I was made on the side. No it's useless to try to pursue most people's.
SPEAKER: F7
Side. But I. Having said all I don't decry it we can easily become the statement in argument for making boring Philadelphia bad which I insist I don't mean I don't mean that I mean a good film was a film which mitigates it to especially for an especially apm and a bad film is however marvelously made in other ways it is in the film does not communicate and doesn't address anybody and doesn't enhance their.
SPEAKER: F15
Emotions about the subject or them standing with some data for them. And that's what matters. And a way to end this rather long farrago if it was shown up with any response and you do remember. And that it was so true. We'd rather left ten years ago was talking about these films Israeli officials say nothing to.
SPEAKER: F16
Our people. Well again I am saying the term really people know very well figure I figure I. Cannot confirm that I never met him he was a of my time the assumption that I was in a city it was in the 1960s. He had gone into. Hiding Rodney as Isaiah. Yes. He died. Saying yes and. No it's not a lot of us Lord we said about the villages in fact that I was the first time that outside from that I had worked with a medium sized company. And we had the facilities and I think. It was in many ways much more. Very many ways much more business like France not as business like America. It didn't have to worry quite so much about.
SPEAKER: F14
But it was very very good background and I think did a lot of good. I'm sorry that you went to sold out to Ravens and then disappeared finally into the court and they went bankrupt. And. A. Reporter. Went into bankruptcy. It's a shame. So that's that. But then we got to the point. We're not going to have an impact on this. Oh yes. Some live pictures. Of the. Were just them and respect for the safety record of my wife who's a musician cellist that now teaches and that she was at that time working for. Pole insurance. And. We were married and that's an interesting game back here we go back to film about ownership of. Our own film company. It was just that moment when Granada was opening up in Manchester. So we took the chance of leaving home to open part of myself to open an office in Manchester. She had a different version for Eddie. We didn't want a commercial. Publishing. And I visited all the agents in Liverpool Manchester Leeds and how. We got a lot of movies made. But the budgets were a third a London commercial. And. We made an offer. We turned over a lot. We didn't make anything out of it. All. But it was just me personally and it was very good but it got us away from home in our first year of married life away way which was good. And so when we did move back. To partnership in. The main. Town. It turns out. We were a lot freer than our parents. It's not a bad idea to leave your first marriage. Getaway. A little flat in state of Britain and work in Manchester and Brown Street for some years and mean been knocked down. And we a lot of commercials and we would just say we're going out with me and jumping backwards and forwards in time and. Then.
SPEAKER: F16
Shall we start on the show. Yes.
SPEAKER: F18
The last time I went to show Max in the UK I think I explained that it was a jointly held subsidiary by BP and Shell. We were never understood that they thought it was somehow Chevron BP were connected they were only created by jointly owned subsidiary and it was marketing that yes. There was.
SPEAKER: F19
A cell phone in it. From time immemorial on that. Yes.
SPEAKER: F20
Some relationships were related because Shell film unit was part of show International. Yes. Which are most of our lifetimes has been based on the South Bank and that enormous show centre and Shell International. This will take ten takes to explains out simply by what I'm saying now is a great simplification show internationally is 60 percent Dutch and 40 percent British.
SPEAKER: F18
Is a Dutch holding company. Royal Dutch whatever it is on that show. Alone issues on Iran and there is a British holding company which is based on the London Stock Exchange which is. Shell Transport and trading. These are the owning companies. They then interlock owned all over the world operating companies all countries of the world. So. The coordinating company for the whole shell group is not in spite of the 60 percent company in important. For reasons of the English language financial center of Europe and London and that's called Shell International Fund. That is coordinating it no longer much of the coordinates. And or service but it does show me that we always remember is show international petroleum company which is based in London but is international in scope. It thinks international we shall make for BP. And then after this shall we we split up where we can show you can imagine. The British operating company for the Shell International Group. And we have. From. Many years s ince sending the signal. And. Film operation we ran the not the actual film library in the U.K.. Confusing matters by. Sort of we make connections. Make. Shall we.
SPEAKER: F21
Pay them. And we took some films from some international some firms in the U.K. and. Some of our.
SPEAKER: F22
To confuse matters if anybody can ever work this out in years ahead. There is also a thing called the Petroleum films which is run by the oil industry in which Shell International and BP and many other films and they were done.
SPEAKER: F18
When the great day came and BP and Shell split up their marketing in the UK or that was closed down. BP started them clean tidy library in the UK and Shell started its own library. Get the largest of awesome. And national benzo which is one of the brands became the BP brands. I lost the BP interest of films in the UK. But I gained the fact that all show activities in the UK rose came on. The North Sea which really didn't work. So we find doing more film later video where after the split. With.
SPEAKER: F20
Shell that's going to be some very complicated. But it isn't that we've played them slow time you'll understand that the main thing was that we became Shell UK Ltd. So I was based in Australia and looking after the UK and I had an opposite number in Shell International who worked on films and later video.
SPEAKER: F18
And that on an international scale. Dora Thomas. Look after the making films for any role any shell company in the world wanted a movie made and wanted to companies such as us and to some extent. In the USA.
SPEAKER: F21
Didn't use us and that's where we had our own operation we were big enough to have our own interests operation. So we commissioned around and occasionally used the show for me. And use a TV studio management so if it's a very confused description. Sorry.
SPEAKER: F17
It is confusing. A comprehensive. National missile. Defense Plan. Until.
SPEAKER: F22
Later. No really. I was a kid I used to have all the old cliche written years of the auto industry. Before I went into it. Nowadays how really competitive was even in those days when prices went up and on the same day. As easy as that they actually did because that was the way the Rotterdam market was working. You know the price of crude the price of refined spirit more easily. It's so that within a day or two ever began change move up or that was very inefficient. So there was no collusion there might have been open collusion when it came to common interests but there wasn't really commercial.
SPEAKER: F6
Interests too. I was never aware of it. Most. Often. I can.
SPEAKER: F19
Only. Real my shell may cause. More. Them. That. Extent.
SPEAKER: F16
Exxon station standard alarm in America yes they broke up the Rockefeller combined. Early in the century and a lot of those big American companies were all standing over company but not here show was a totally different beginning. And it was only an amalgamation of a Dutch company getting these and. On. Some.
SPEAKER: F22
Sundays and there was a note saying was someone who ran a company called Shell principle trading company and it started transporting shells from the East Indies literary garden shell. And they said one day well if is an oil well in Indonesia and it brings in cans of all back and it all started seriously. Well that's why it's culture. It was there was a fashion in Victorian times the garden ornaments great big tropical shells on your locker. And it was that small. I forget the name of the gentleman it wasn't Samuelsson as.
SPEAKER: F18
Somebody is listening they should check it out.
SPEAKER: F20
We're getting to the end of this I do want to sort of out.
SPEAKER: F19
Well can I say then this

SPEAKER: F1
So we were just saying with a tape of that we might be good ideas. Talk about the relationship between production companies. And the producers and technicians and money and sponsors and industrial firm. Say I can't.
SPEAKER: F17
By the way I'm always saying film of course is that I'm quite confident that three quarters of it is video. That's true. Let's use the word film. Talking Sean. Yes. I was saying earlier on the previous tape that a lot of prejudices were confirmed. But. That isn't quite. A lot of assumptions were confirmed when I became a sponsor. One of the very few film people now had a camera business which is very strange the whole atmosphere of work and everything. Different. And I have seen far too many not just technicians the producers and. Directors of film companies treating sponsors territory as if it were their own and thinking it was terribly.
SPEAKER: F1
Effective to arrive late to be dressed in a funny way with their feet up on the and in the theater on the seat in front of great boots. I mean and I cringe with embarrassment sergeant in his. But most big sponsoring nations even to this day are pretty prim places.
SPEAKER: F9
And certainly on the surface. They do expect people with suits and ties and quiet voices and a slight feeling that the hierarchy of things and they expect them sort of to be carried through into their suppliers. Now we must remember and I think this is the most. That most film making for industry. Of course is a very very small matter and most large companies it's a peripheral thing a side issue. Very often given to quite a junior person to handle and. Maybe the directors or one or two of the judges might come into the very last minute for the final cut of the company show. Just to approve it and not say. That. And so many film companies don't understand this. They are late they are noisy they swear language you're going through a place like the show in town house where still a lot of reticence.
SPEAKER: F14
You know if a tape machine and the two latest regulation movie related ideas on Blondie that in loud voices all over the place sort of thing you might expect in Soho Square. You know you're not too keen on in of prison plays. And the other factor in the other thing doesn't connect very often is. And. I was going to say blinding with science I don't quite mean that I mean assuming that everybody knows what they're talking about. They use film language in front of these people known for treating on film people. And even today there's a lot of understanding and. Constant viewing television. Roughly what goes on. People cannot understand what they're looking at in a cutting copy. Or you're only hearing a strange commentary. And they somehow think people to not get this in their heads and they just babble on about this. What you don't say now is I come over and look around at lights down and on memories of the film the stripper since I married it. And was it all in black and white. No it had to be color. They cannot bring themselves to clearly explain this the capital which I am now putting on the show is rather like proofreading a book. They look at the quality of the paper and they just feel it spelt rise and so on. And if the facts arrive. And if all your audiences in black and white and rather dirty with these improvements are still young and old and all that. And of course when you fear that complete film in color and shiny. People when they can in fact if you do it as response as the Intermedia. Monetarily were quite so disturbing for that really. It's mostly is the social thing is different. I did ask I have to ask one or two from the concept. Try and dress up a bit you coming into town. And try and sit quietly in the back row of the directors are talking. Amongst themselves. And I've had to there one or two occasions where I had to cancel films for purely social for one of the better reasons. Appointed by my better reason. Yes. And the director who so I don' t deal with that lot anymore you know. Really. And I had to agree with that I wasn't. It wasn't just a bona fide cultural gap. It really was. They were very rude. And. Uncommunicative and insulted if somebody wants to a little change you know. MUMBLES IN THE BACK ROW and all that sort of thing. You can't get on like this. And I do believe that a lot of small film outfits again would constantly say. And. Might think carefully about having one of their number. From the business world. Not from the film making good movies. Quote growing. Economy.
SPEAKER: F2
Is not enough. You've also got to live with the people with whom you're dealing. That's when thousands of pounds and material you know. You've got to be a little careful about it's like everybody has it. These people are used to dealing with business before they make a sort. Of contractor. 500 million quid for something in the North Sea no matter the level on which they deal and it's. Really carefully negotiated and quietly fought out over logic. Carefully. It isn't a matter of people's shoes face upwards on the front row of the front in front of them. And I said I seen rows of technicians including the director on the back row valuable theater sounding suit Johnson with all his feet up along the back and leaning back all began. With board members from the show and that is really terrible. That's an extreme but at always extremes make a point some legitimate and. Some. Others were good. Companies were very good. I do understand. That I think that they're not not quite enough business minded people in production for specialized games maybe enterprise features not every individual. Is. Just not quite enough. Thinking about the business in hand as well as the film. That's certainly a big factor that I think caused the other one we spoke about earlier and I read in the papers about I think we did it on tape about. Contacting filmmakers and their audiences. Really. Before we. Talk about it. I was fascinated to get involved with distribution is really very interesting much more than others. I was rather dreading getting involved in the gray area in a non theatrical managers. Distribution. And I was fascinated by it with so much information back. If you. Ask for. And. You really go into. Another area. Which was. Worth the school which is worth discussing for a moment. It is the use of. Sponsored documentary films the bad words onto television. You find very often that the. Sponsoring companies. Are absolutely dead set on getting that blasted from Washington. And you c an talk you know blow in the face being such information so it probably doesn't hurt anybody. I'm just a waste of time. And that's not the audience it was intended for. But you've no idea how childish and get my people think I'm going to get on the beam on. Independent television station. A group mass migration telegrams out all their friends.
SPEAKER: F4
I think there's only only a little of 15 minutes. And very often there's a lot of falling flat on faces. In.
SPEAKER: F2
A world. And I fought very hard and lost someone again get. Are the worst people we have. I'm talking about 15 years ago now. To deal with the BBC the ITV countries actually were quite good. They are wanted the fail or they did and they said so. And if they did they pay bit. For it. And. That was fine you. You paid the film company for any increase in rates. Great. Royalties. As part of that but. And. And they showed the film and that was. That. The number of times I've had what amounts to. Sharp practice for the BBC. I suppose I couldn't say anymore.
SPEAKER: F14
When they would ask for a copy of something. And we found them in two weeks time on Panorama a fourth. Without telling you letting you know and then leaving and they would look back. Oh well that was production being I mean we're just processing people and.
SPEAKER: F8
We showed it to them I don't know what happened to it after that they all said they retreated behind the same screen a and hat and enabling and actually legal and everything. And we nearly went for it you see it is very difficult for. Any commercial company to take a law case against the BBC because your name will be mud. It's very bad news coverage. News coverage is another thing we used to shoot roads particularly in the matter of the enormous development the North Sea. The great oil fields.
SPEAKER: F2
Were used to shoot loads of material specifically for television not in France. And we used to love them have made up the world cut the negative and make two prints of the six female. Running water with Eastman in mansion shooting and we we sent rolls out in March to Kansas to BBC all the regional stations particularly spot insurances. Saying use this anytime you want. Full stop. You have all rights and I negotiate production company with a rights for free. And everything and knowing fully that of course any time that every do shots or platform upgrades and furthermore whether it is a disaster.
SPEAKER: F4
Again of course I mean that they have actual but at least they have material that you have label it all the time. What we were dating was what platform it was and. And it really was their fault and they were about to hand over the news story right ahead of time here. They never ring anybody up. They had that role. And that worked very well and we accepted the fact that they would only use it as a disaster at least what they show a clean side have. Looked. At. So that was an interesting little side and I think that's brilliant. Yeah I learnt a lot about public relations value the magistrate have division here. Were you involved in. Relation to such development benefits and. Agricultural. When I try to get a laugh on the aspect of it eleven. Minutes. Later yes clearly not making must not take them.
SPEAKER: F6
Seriously. This is I. That's what we do. We are moving into the and criteria feeling is that they they hardly relationship. I was told that the public relations division doesn't even exist on tape and that's why I'm so sad. Forget it. And the very first recommendation. Is watch out. For real disaster on tape. Right. I I learned a great deal. It was a very sophisticated public relations. And. One would expect from one of the. Major parties. And. It was.
SPEAKER: F7
Surprisingly uncomplicated and straightforward. I very rarely wanted to see them aware of real problematical politics and so. That. Nearly always. Went viral within. The.
SPEAKER: F8
New term. Don't deny anything and pretend something isn't happening and it always worked better. You could if something awful happened that you were ashamed of the story would be dead day if you'd said yes. I'm sorry. Whatever it was. There was some oil in the emergency room. If you started backing away and denying it was too late and the pressure again on tourism older and it would become a front page piece. And it is true I'm sure. The only way to cope with it very complicated as a huge corporation is to be and to be open and straightforward. The whole damn thing. Knowing that some source of a bad and some stories of being on the front page and the using some. Will die quicker and eventually more quickly if you told anybody the truth. And. It. Does work. It is true. We saw other companies less. Well set up as. Who put smoke screens up in Washington and of course the press gets on with their lives what they tried to hide from ASH in no time and. Cause in a major corporation to run w ithout some trouble with the law some idiot to get some oil into the hot seat. It was a moment if not the fault of the company particularly feminine mistake member state in an area. So that was a big thing at the end. How about talking to me miss about the coming in a video. You know the introduction of video for everything. When I first saw man. It was of. Course. The. Late. Sixties and my writing. Yesterdays. And we were then when I arrived shooting everything on 35. As did the show for movement in. The building opposite and I began to say whether or not these were very limited distribution. Or until enough. 20 copies of all. Things. Sometimes. To. Obscure because something really count we shoot on 16. And that.
SPEAKER: F7
Over a lot of producers dead bodies time and shooting of victim. And it worked very well and budgets. Dropped by. 30 percent. And you know something I think it's psychological. It's not just financial we're taking. I think people are working on a ticket. I often have that curious thing where people say let's work in 60 mile terms. And. Seem to work with. We. Gadgets. Down a lot. And quality on the screen. Everywhere we show should always on 16 anyway. No different. Sometimes they give you hand contact for insulin. Reduction and on the whole we work very well. So we ended up shooting most mostly on 16 occasionally. They figured that one day. Faster. Because we would have 45 minute shows in between audience and then of course the. Video starts to. And. I got this film library was done for us. Out there for random things. And. I didn't have. That. Had been running into it. And I said well let's just put a few video copies in the early Phillips video system. And. Forestry. In schools or down those machines. So we put a few some few copies of a few of our subjects animation. And. 20 titles. And. We made about 30 copies of each item. To start with. And it started building up I think we're the first and second library in the country to guarantee videos. And they started to run these things. And. Over the years I believe now it's age 70 or 80 percent video and maybe. 20 percent of the bookings. Film. From. Where it ended up with the VHS. Or with one or two copies on that. No way. Yes. In addition it. And. Just for bigger shows inherent. Risks. And the only problem is that of course it almost by implication movies were more than sufficient. And. A big screen you can use the school hall and our school comes you can't very well do that. And. Even a 25 inch screen you know it's. A. Slight tendency for audience size to draw bookings together. Each. Audience has dropped. And. Size swings and roundabouts really. But it just think we have to do. I like to see films on big scre en but you can't deny the videos aren't easy. We found a lot of statistical anomalies. In the matter of video in schools over the years. We found that the figures for this were some years ago and has changed the figures for the presence of video machines in schools of much higher margin. Because half of them are broken down and nobody bother. You know just any other. When I say half a large number. Another large number was stolen. And you guess. Who knew those video machines repair teacher associations. And a lot of schools. Very interesting. Are not just a tiny percentage quite a percentage had them on the books not in existence. And there were a great number of salmon too. We used to wonder in later years why we still have a lot of people looking and this all came out. We did a survey and a lot of video machines didn't exist in a broken four. Or 30 teachers or fine. No they were black boxes and understand firm is physical information up on a projector and squirted in the screen yo u know fiction or something like this is it all you know and you can't tune in the TV set properly. And I became. Major problems and the wedding is probably not over new generations come on you know the worries and what Vice President for a few years and video gaming there's quite a lag in use a. And everybody is saying oh it's all video night edition of that wasn't quite true. Still filming is. Not still it still is no. Business. So that's the question of video. What else there is to say about sponsorship. The biggest thing is to as a bump say to get two people to make films. I don't believe I tried. I don't think there were enough people were saying they wanted. A movie made to give this kind of program. And I always had a feeling that if I did watch some of my opposite numbers it would stay around constantly trying to get people to make movies for the money out maybe we'd end up with too many I really wanted in the first place you know. It's much better for them to initiate and I have seen quite a number of instances they made with me. And. I don't want to end up seeing many reviews or. And there's not a lot of we all know is a lot of glamour. And people get excited about the movies being made rather than a bit of cool thinking that wouldn't unfold anyway.
SPEAKER: F12
Do they need the numbers from the folks that end up on a shelf. You know four copies of on your show and show once a year. That's ridiculous. It really isn't because we had I think 40000 bookings a year. For. The monthly bookings and we could multiply that by an average of 60 or 70 audience. Which could. Give us some accountability in schools. Schools where education was 60 something percent in our education and. Higher education. Not everything the same primary 60 kids. Yes. Universal access. Yes. It was the obvious place for animation. The supplies all the equipment. Sorry clubs and societies and we're only about 15 percent. Really. People used to say that that was a big audience and wasn't at all the real truth is that it's education emergency rooms are nothing too technical what I used to call poverty is if you know training courses. We did a lot of the nuts and bolts half a lot of. Engineering stuff inside. And what were they. All the future engineers of the world show on the lo go. Famous. Painter. There's a factor. What does justify making a. Happy. What does come out of it for the sponsor. I don't know that I ever had a. System. That. I knew. So. I. Find it very difficult to put into words. If somebody were to say today show will make no more films or videos only there won't be a single drop of aviation space or petrol or labor in the U.S. so next year. It wouldn't affect sales that emphasizing the advertising sales next year. That's why we're an more publications about. What we were after was the image of the famous old in is not so much on how.
SPEAKER: F13
The show man in the white coat and the laboratory for people. Twenty years on. And it was always said that if you're driving on a rainy night and these people are out in the country and on one side there's a Shell station on the other side and Joe Bloggs the tendency is to go to show occasionally. These. Amazingly carefully cultivated image of the clean respectable place where all the research has been done. He won't let you down. I wish obviously a big bang of a year a year. The advice from the 20s onwards. And it. Pays off in that time. Span. Doesn't pay off. Certainly worth the public relations damage with. Within engineering. Yes it does adaptive advertising. You get some new lubricant for some special time machine. And the way to introduce it very often is to make a film or video about that and get you off the ground. That's another year for the great public relations film the environmental film. Over. A film about the countryside.
SPEAKER: F12
So you're not sending any more tomorrow morning. You're not at all. And it was very foolish to think. This. Is much more to. Say we were the long haul. You know. There was a separate department to help. With. Marketing and. They were the commercials. I even. See CNN. Now as well. I was occasionally asked to comment. Because of my background after some tricky point and I was a consultant part of the job as a consultant to generally on audio visual things. And. Video when he came in and film as well as making movies and I was calling sometimes on big presentations shareholders presentations in China. So I did that. But made John McCain from the main industries. Yeah it was a wonderfully interesting time. To be in the video coming. Soon. And. Became something I did everything that happened to me having a moment at the right time. All the changes were made just right. There right now. So I have to look for that big last year of our lives. Him on the the. And it was very. Very. Nice. Feel ing. So. Well take off. I can complain.
SPEAKER: F6
When you.
SPEAKER: F13
Oh too early. I retired at the age of 55. Seven years ago. And because of his illness cropped up. So formula for a replacement. So. You say again I was lucky that I had a regular major oil company and they. Marvel. Is. Absolutely. Stunning. With. Silver handshakes and adjusted pension schemes of seen your eyes on the train before you became eligible for a pension all sorts of goodies can people call the time to see if I was all right and say this is an amazing company it does look after it. I must say. I knew. The price one pays. I tell you what one price which is nobody's fault. I paid 18 years is too long to be missing out on much too long.
SPEAKER: F8
And you get sort of battle fatigue. It's an interesting thing after a few years you begin to notice. And I have to go back when I was taken on as a specialist and make it all unsurvivable in myself. I've been feeling 10 million and I've been a soldier and I wasn't going to be in the promotion stakes or. Anything. That's another oil company man. So that was fine. Nobody knew. Absolutely no stress and strains it and I. Because their pay structure I got the point every year and read grading. And. Congressman. Rangel. You get. A job fatigue battle fatigue because you get new bosses because we have a new boss coming in and there are oil people most men are not filthy rich. And they get intrigued with. Being. Responsible for Labor. And it ends up all the better. And. You are the ones I know we don't do that. We've done that 50 times already and we know it doesn't work. And there's no use trying this things and you get a very negative reputation you get the reputation of the president alway s saying that if he didn't say no you're not doing your job you're not doing your job. So you have to listen so many times all the good ideas new. Fresh blood. And. You have to negate stop and you become obstructive or worse. It's really weird. And then after a few years I understand what he meant and the frustration will tell you the right word here and it would be a waste of money and maybe not when they move on a new going and chat. And that gets very where it becomes almost a center of your life internal battle all. The time. You get very good bosses. Like. David bosses. Never had anybody ever really bother. But it was just as constant negating what seemed to be good ideas all the time. Can we get on my toes on television was the biggest one. I'm sure people here have been essential John. Some are the big object in Nigeria last the television screen. And you say well if it's the sort of film they'll take that action then we will get very little out of it. They went no longer. We ll they chose the channel over those days. It's changed in those days it was true. So no one knows for sure. We're just giving a free program free half an hour's worth of. Programming. If is a vote we'd love to see that all rather lovely. Services products and we have an interest in righteous. Sentiment. But the public's centrism. So there's a genuine dichotomy of several genuine problems. And I think no non theater will experience special distribution sweet distribution by our people in the regions and the feeling is much better. Getting a few million people bored to tears. Me. They would solidly agree that they wouldn't believe it. They won't believe it or not enough. And. So you tended to get this negative reputation all the time. But I'm glad to say that after all the changes to what was said of also here if you were right there. How good it all was that.
SPEAKER: F12
It would be the one awful strains for a few years. And I'm sure that contributed to me leaving in for those that were very tight. I'm going to work and. A startup stomach and a very tense. And. So I started these nasty things and it was made cut alcohol at night.
SPEAKER: F6
That was early in the morning and and I was found on the floor in the office.
SPEAKER: F12
I was sent home. No one moment by 10:00 a.m.. And apart from gains in medical people. I. Am getting my pension sorted out. I didn't work there again and there every week or so visiting me and my lady assistant became my successor. Nice. With him for a few years before she is gone completely. Course most of my work has. Of this video. So I'm afraid film is limited usage. So under the grinding older than me off we'll be talking. Thank you. Shall we stop no.
SPEAKER: F5
When he tell about our relationship intensity.
SPEAKER: F10
Yes. Old is after breaking the apropos of nothing one way or the other really. Just that I was a member I wasn't a member very recently when I started working this for processing that I joined up when I went to crunch some units and was a member paid my dues and way until we were right the way to the Crown film unit day. You said you were a child at a shelter for a few weeks. Stadiums I mean it was the worst fear region. I loved it. That was all. Luckily I had to go on occasion able to get something they know was niggling arguments. Imagine how much of a fit. Yes a lot. And so I can't say I did a great deal and I stayed as a member until I went to Merton studios here.
SPEAKER: F11
Years and years later as manager in the studio and took it up again I went back into production with some decent girl and finally dropped around the show. So I've been an honorary lodge card ex member. Since. So not honoring as an honorable honorable it said that I can't say I've had a great deal of AC to the extent as an employer we always seem to get on the right is which is a great privilege and so much flexibility really. We were saying earlier in our conversation that crewing. Many years together came about when I thought it became too rigid. Whole thing. And it's I'm sure it's used often. And. It's. Not quite as specified. And I think I was earlier making the point about the fact that it isn't just people's salaries annual conference their hotels their airfares everything is so expensive. One more person on the crew that's thousands on ice and overseas on occasion. And you really have to be a little bit realistic. And of course everybody knows that the equipment is on flexible need a lighter and smaller. You're not going round in ten technique and some trunks do that. So the thing is that a little box in your pocket almost in there so that the justification for a lot of big. Guns. In return I would hope that the industry becomes a more stable employer in general. Pensions pay levels. I didn't think we were ever mean as employers and things like pay and so. It was paid. And now due to much about. Having do you recruit if you want to like that in those days was quite an the biggest issue. And. Union matters. I think it got to so. Stay at one point when you know you pretty well had to stop a location because you weren't going to take a 50 a person in the sound department I exaggerate. You know what I mean. Was getting a bit silly. I'm sure it's not easy. From what I hear it's. More relaxed more sensible more Russian. Around the holidays. And different places. Yes. Yes. So that's the sum total of what I know about. The Union. And. The various unions. If one t alks about the political aspect again I've always found that the the most tricky people as an employee or as a senior an employer or as a senior became a cameraman. Were not the real political of the members of the CPA in the old days. They were a complete and very most reasonable people. And the most tricky and difficult people were the people with the characteristics of the children come. You know it really on both sides of political spectrum we get the same person the obstructive people the difficult people the awkward people. Nothing to do with their political feelings or anything really. If you're really an ally that's difficult tricky over always saying no to everything. Yes. And that was the biggest problem I found in there especially the studio and in the studio. We had a shop steward who was a very longstanding CPA man and he was amiable sensible. You could call him in late on a Friday. We got a terrible weekend problem can the lads do some digging check them into it and mo ve away. And I do a deal and they all get a little bit of extras on the unit there. But there was another guy and I honestly do forget his name. So it doesn't really matter who was. I think far as I neo conservative had mandatory voting and it was tricky. All good. No no no. That is Margaret Thatcher. It really was all the way through. You couldn't talk to someone about it. All and go by the book. And. Present. And he was a guy who on one occasion heard was story many times that I. Come with him. There was shooting in a stately home great big house. And the Lord whoever it was and provided lunch for the crew and it was smoked salmon all the things and he stopped everybody was not like she. Hadn't had lunch.
SPEAKER: F6
The whole units up and I had to go down there and sort things out. They. Had a mother that she. Drinks. Wine. And.
SPEAKER: F7
Said you know you've got a. And all the others were standing there. And he was one of these non-political very. Very tricky. Anyhow that. Some total anarchy would be an experience a woman being respectable. Fully paid up members and a lot of the time. When. We. Need. Needed. Are we going to pull it off. This is the end of our interview with confidence.
SPEAKER: F5
And the end has yet to sideline. It's been very I thank you very much